Ghostwritten songs, "idol kei" and VK industry of the late 2010's

[Total Saikou 735]

I'm far from an old hand in the fandom but I think I know what you're getting at. I’m actually gonna invert the question order because my thought process caused 2 to lead to 1:

 

2) From my perspective, Idol Kei is made up of Kawaii af Oshare Kei bands that don’t have a special sound to them and sound like they could’ve been mass-produced.  They're really successful despite being run of the mill and may just be industry plants. I don’t want to name names because it's just conjecture and they could be innocent. One of the biggest indicators, to me, is a lack of previous band history, i.e this is either their first or second band they’ve been a part of. It’s usually never more. It’s especially telling if they never had some dumbass high school garage band that was… Well, doing something. Or in the rare exceptions like Lunacy, showing some real promise and raw talent that just needs to be polished up. Tangent note, I’ve noticed in the VK fandom that we’re anal af about listing out a member’s previous band history. I’ve seen people write out band histories that span like 10 different bands for each member in forums and comments sections. Could this be a by-product of wanting to see the artistic process and evolution, or to check for industry plants? Well, that’s just conjecture...

 

1) That leads me to here. Stuff that makes me think, “Huh, is a debut band like this really making stuff that sounds this polished already? And damn, they kinda sound just like [some other band that sounds generic]” makes me wonder if they really did write it. One big indicator that a band isn’t ghostwritten is when the band members have a history that I can follow around. When I follow that history, I can usually find patterns in songwriting that trace to one member. Such as a love for that new wave sound he grew up with as a teen or a jazz influence from his formal lessons. Also, artistic evolution is a big indicator of a band being 100% "real", if you will, such as incorporating different genre elements as time goes by or being able to hear their music evolve as the members gain more experience with writing and performing songs.

 

3) That’s… Tricky. I’d go back as far as the early 2000s when An cafe existed, but were they really that manufactured? Maybe later then, but then I wouldn’t really know what year exactly. The jury’s out on this one 

4) As biased as I am to old school stuff and underground stuff that sounds like it was recorded on the vocalist’s bootleg Chinese Yak-Bak, I still listen to new school stuff, occasionally even bands that I think could be ghost written. It's cute and danceable, and it's usually written competently so it's not technically bad. Besides, sometimes I just need a break from the concept pieces and experimental songs from angura bands I love, ya know? Nothing wrong with that.

 

5) Every genre and scene deals with ghostwriting, even ones where literally all you write are the lyrics (big lol @ rap ghostwriting considering that in this day and age you can just read the writing on the wi-fi router and slap a trap beat over it to make a hit), I think VK won’t be negatively impacted by this by too much. Besides, it's not like these sickeningly saccharine sweet boy groups claim to be high art or some shit. There’s so much more that could seriously shoot VK in the foot, like continuing cute but ancient industry practices until the whole damn industry collapses.

 

6) I listen to lots more than just Visual Kei, but it’s still my #1 ever since I discovered it a few years ago. I wrote a long-ass paragraph on this in another thread but here’s a TL;DR:

- Jrock chords, baby, I want that shit injected into my bloodstream. They are actually really different from the Western pop chords. I’m no music major so I’ll spare you the half-assed music theory lesson and simply compare them in layman’s terms. Jrock chords are like a “question and answer” type of progression that resolves itself in an intrinsically… pleasant manner? It provides the question to the answer, simply. Western pop is like a “whole statement” type of progression, it’s meant to add more statements on to it.

- I love the looks a lot, they make the PVs so much more fun to watch! VK to me is more than looking pretty, it’s about expressing the meaning of the music through the use of visuals, using it as a compliment to the lyrics or even just with the actual song structure.

- I like how the lyrics are so much more subtle than in English. I know that it's a by-product of how Japanese is as a language when compared to English, but even still, I'm gonna argue this one because I have translated songs (mostly in my head these days) before and their subtle meanings don't get completely lost in translation, the thought process still stays intact in English. It’s actually kind of ruined English songs for me in all honesty because now many sound like “Hurr-Durr, I have to actually tell you how to feel about what I just said instead of letting you interpret it or understand the implications”. I could go on a rant about this shit. But let’s just say an English artist would say “I killed myself then everyone was sad” and a Japanese artist would say “[I was] erased from this earth, a fact that your tears tried to blur out”. I understand that being vague is upsetting to some but I feel like spelling it out so bluntly like so many western artists do is insulting to the listener’s intelligence. Or at least my intelligence…

Edited May 14, 2020 by Total Saikou
Spelling fixes

[Komorebi 2193]

3 hours ago, Peace Heavy mk II said:

I think in the case of Hueye, it seems like less of "someone is writing the music for them" and more "they're being heavily produced / guided to be portrayed a certain way". A release every 6 months really isn't astronomically overbearing, but people are quick to compare them to Mejibray and I can't help but feel that was done on purpose.

I feel this way about Kizu. Lime is heavily involved in the whole creative process but you can still tell they are being produced a certain way.

[nekkichi 6043]

12 hours ago, saiko said:

One doesn't need critical music-listening skills to appreciate, in one hand, in the pre-come-back songs, the experimental nature of the trashy and psychedelic arrengments in every song

you're comparing baroque in their signed to avex sissified state post losing two founding members to their up and coming start and major singles curated by dynamite tommy at the height of freewill giving their artists some options whew

 

12 hours ago, saiko said:

Here are some songs that I returned to after a long time not listening to them.

maybe instead try boogieman which was a short-lived annoying brainchild of baroque's akira and bansaku + kagerou's yuana on her typical cockdestroyer jush, with a pierrot roadie vocalistè per their start:

 

and a switch in style towards what baroque could still sound for their short-lived 2nd phase after:

if you followed Kei and his snoozey music projects you'll know BRQ is not ghostwritten, it's just the shit that fits their current label best and they seem happy to chug it out.

[ghostpepper 158]

I covered this pretty much in the bad bandmen topic as someone who is actually in the scene here but: 

 

Ghostwriting has been going on in vk since the 90s but is now much much more prevalent. 

 

A good sign that a band is using a ghostwriter is that they do not gradually grow in production and songwriting but suddenly have fully produced looks and releases under a label. 

 

The music industry is a cut throat business, even more so in this age, so one can understand why the labels choose a mechanism that produces money(making bands pay for ghostwriter and costumes from the start means even if they do not sell you get the money plus rights. ) 

 

In the past you could have the pop music support risks in underground music, watusi from coldfeet taught me that was the normal in Japan. Big labels would basically say "do whatever you want, we have a budget from the pop sales" but now that is non existent. 

 

It is a case of do not hate the player but hate the game. While I hate fake produced crap I understand it helps prop the scene up until hopefully there is a mass revival amongst all the plastic stuff. 

 

If you enjoy a band, even if they use a ghostwriter that is not bad, life is too short, get any enjoyment you can. 

But make sure to support the real underground stuff, even if foreign fan support is 1% of what a band gets. 

 

You would honestly be surprised by some of the bands using ghostwriters, I am here and have been shocked honestly. But I love VK so much to have dedicated my life to it, even if some elitist views are uncomfortable to you f@ck it, just listen to what you want to, but realize the scene is full of lots of bands not making their own stuff. 

Edited May 14, 2020 by ghostpepper

[nekkichi 6043]

tbh i've reached the point where the only thing that still can surprise me in the scene would be actual receipts on the perrenial sacrifice of no longer relevant bandomen in order to appease the scene demons, rip isshi x

[Rahzel 110]

1) What are the indicators that make a song "ghostwritten" for you? And that it is not?

Generally, to me they are ghostwritten if, well, they are ghostwritten. It's not in me to try to guess which bands buy songs and which don't, but I guess I enjoy unique / experimental songs more often and those are less often ghostwritten than formulaic songs even if they suck sometimes. On the other hand there are less and less of those, so these aren't the only songs I like, and then I don't guess. 

2) What are the indicators that make a band "idol kei"? And that it is not?

This is more what I wanted to address reading this topic - "idol kei" nowadays surely seems to me like a derogatory terminology used for bands whose members are supposedly less concerned about making music than spreading STD. And while I ... certainly don't listen to any music for the sex I don't know (as a non-japanese listener/gig-goer in particular) if it's true, how much of it is just gossip. For one, I saw people mention that AnCafe was "idol kei" and I don't get it. (also, thanks for Candyholic because I had forgotten all about it and I'm giddy now! ) If one wants to use "idol kei" as a synonym for "oshare kei (particularly if popular)" I guess it qualifies but, well, everyone who thought they'd disband once Bou left and the initial hype was gone was severely mistaken, AFAIK their music was authoral and they did their thing.

So, what I personally understand as "idol kei" particularly in the context of vk. I'd say it wasn't a thing before the 2010s - not that I know of. Sure there were bands more on the oshare side, some less, some *cough* S.K.I.N *cough* successful bandomen who went on to live lives of idolish luxury and questionable releases, some bands with a very idol-like presentation (even more than AnCafe - thinking Psycho le Cemu which had a huge fanbase but don't think I've seen anyone mention it in the last 10 years), some bands with an aggressive idol-like promotion (um, Versailles maybe?), some actual idols signed to major labels who happened to do vk rock gigs (basically Daigo Stardust but Takanori Nishikawa seemed to be kinda regarded as that?), some actual musicians trained by the likes of Mana who happened to do idol-like pop songs (basically Kaya), speaking of Mana some bandomen who went on to launch successful artists and fashion brands and became more like enterpreuners (while Gackt kissed guys playing Vanilla but wtv, someone kept MM fandom entertaining) and everything in-between don't think at that point anything could be called "idol kei" in my personal understanding - don't think anyone had gone and thought "this is vk but ALSO idol PERIOD." and just rolled with it 100%. So between ~2010-2015 I stayed away from vk (being shocked by the occasional Yohio - Sky Limit and Gackt doing anime that I came across lol) and when I got back the scenery was very different. As someone who's never been... anti-oshare (as much as some assholes regarded it as Visual Kei Litter back then) there was a lot more of it and giving it all a try certainly there's an increase in plastic surg--Choreographies, (probably ghostwritten) pop music appeal, genuinely forced smiles and everything that had dominated the j-pop scene since a few years prior. Curiously 2010 was exactly when Golden Bomber became relevant so that was probably not a coincidence that I slept to one thing and woke up to another.

In short to me idol kei would be this consciousness of "what we do is inspired by early vk but also shamelessly pop idol" not "anti"-idol and not counter-culture as vk had been but yeah, generally ugly kids playing in an indie garage band don't make it as idols very convincingly either, so I guess "idol kei" kind of depends on a label and some level of deliberate fabrication from the get-go? (except, um, if you're GB?) As for musical talent and/or ghostwriting in it I'd guess it varies a lot. 

3) Where would you put its birth date?

Uh, guessing 2010 here but that's a guess based on Absolutely Nothing Really.

4) Do they qualify as "good music" or not? Do you enjoy them? Do not? 

YEAH, I do. Uh I enjoy k-pop and such and may regard some of it as "good music" and this is no different. If it's enjoyable to my ears then it's enjoyable to my ears. But I like quite a few "idol kei" acts. Most notably Gravity as I think their aesthetic is very interesting. (It would surprise me if any member actually played anything.)

5) Does it seem to you that this certain music goes "against" (to put it somehow) of certain "well-being" of the scene, or of the music itself?

Hmm, ... yeah, generally a music scene where musicians aren't actual musicians probably won't go very far. Seeing differences in releases from 2010s bandomen I've been following it is certainly "scary" in that "you could do so much musically 'better' than this but what I find 'better' probably doesn't do as well in lives anymore, thus it is only 'better to me' now" way. But a) don't think there is a linear progression but rather a cyclic one in any trend and b) we go back to the old "if it's musically complex is it Automatically Better?" discussion which is a moot point ; if other people like it who am I to complain lol.

6) Why are you still listening to VK in the 2010s? Are your reasons the same as before? What does it give you that other music does not give you?

No, back then I listened to every kind of j-rock indifferently because musically it gave me a lot more quality-wise than most western rock bands. Somehow these changes made me more interested in VK as a scene as it feels more "approachable" to me (and my very lacking musical knowledge!) and growing up with an interest in stuff like pop Asian music / japanese fashion / host clubs etc. made it so that the logical step was "oh, let's check what these guys are doing" and here I am so maybe I'm the exception in that I'm around more for the "idol kei" really. It's harmless (except for STDs) fun and while I wouldn't trade most bands I listened during the 2000s for it, some of it is legitimately very enjoyable.

Edited August 17, 2020 by Chell