Old School Visual Kei

[niivozombie 30]

Does anybody listen to old visual kei, like early 90's kind of stuff? I'm not shure if this "old school visual" label really exists, and if it does, I don't know what years it covers. Once I found a video called "old school visual kei compilation" on youtube, and it included mostly late 90's stuff (La:Sadies, La'Mule, Aliene Ma'riage), but no ZI:KILL, D'erlanger, Kuroyume, etc.I really like that late 90's stuff though. Anyway, what do you guys think? Wanna share thoughts and recommendations?

[blackdoll 907]

Does anybody listen to old visual kei, like early 90's kind of stuff? I'm not shure if this "old school visual" label really exists,

Well it probably does exist depending of the person you ask.

 

But as for thought i would say the reason why it's not around anymore Probably because the musicians thought they couldnt do anymore with that sound or wanted to try something new as the vocalist of Aliene Ma'riage and La:Sadie new band dont sound like it at all and have change their sound.

 

It's can be said that time period is noticed and influential as their are songs like Lycaon's dalhia and bands like Grieva, avelcain, crucifixion, cell, Crimson Shiva

and dezert, but like to stay modern and maybe put their own input on it.

 

then there is the issue, is their a market for it?

 

what i would recommend, Aliene Ma'riage's cyber album jigsaw posted, and baiser

 

And A question, what would you think about old school vocaloid?

[Lestat 2167]

I have always ended the tally on late-2001, early-2002, the period in which Syndrome finalized its activities. By that time the 'kote-kote' era was officially over for me. I have always been more drawn to the more or less original blend of Visual Kei; chaotic, hypnotic and when you look at earlier activities, more genuine than what I'd call recent music. Musicians would care to create art instead of simply taking on an appearance to attract youngsters and popularity. Lately I have been attempting to more or less drop the modern music and end my searches for something that can still entertain me and stick to what I know as of now, as it's becoming increasingly difficult to find original works.

 

The other side of the old garde of course burgeoned to life in the late 80's, with bands such as X JAPAN, LUNA SEA and 聖飢魔II. I have been listening to Glam Rock since my early teenage years so it was only natural for me to branch out to other countries starting from there, and I'd look out for bands who were influenced by the likes of Mötley Crüe and Poison. I had my first experiences with X JAPAN, ZIGGY, Cats In Boots, TOKYO YANKEES, 44MAGNUM and Loudness when I was perhaps twelve years old. They bear a greater charm to me than modern bands and music do, their characters stand out more and I feel as if these musicians were genuinely interested in creating music and didn't just do it 'because they could' and then give up after a year, like most Visual Kei bands nowadays do. 

 

A few bands I have greatly been in to the past several months; BY-SEXUAL, Gilles de Rais, WITH SEXY, VIOLET-NARCISSUS, Justy-Nasty, ZI:KILL. Of course other names are in that list as well, but I'd probably be creating an entire archive of them were I to go on.

[hyura 465]

There are many brilliant visual kei bands from the early 90s and many acts that became well known major bands later started out during that time.

Bands that released impressive songs in the first half of the 1990s I can think of the top of my head include LUNA SEA, 黒夢, Deshabillz, ROUAGE, FANATIC◇CRISIS, Ti+Dee, L'Arc~en~Ciel, GLAY, D†ress, Sleep My Dear, Penicillin, SHAZNA, o×b×j×e and well- the list goes on.

 

The late 90s and early 00s 'kotekote' craze gets more credit overseas so it sometimes seems like the earlier era wasn't as densely populated with interesting acts but the opposite is true. VK was booming!

[LIDL 692]

I believe these are called "kote kei"

And yes, actually I listens to old than new more.

[Ikna 1225]

I am actually still not entirely sure how kote kei is truly defined. Some use it only exclusively for the era of the mid 90s to early 00s. Others use it for the really early VK bands like Sleep My Dear, ROUAGE, etc as well. And some just tag every band with heavy make-up and complex costumes as such, regardless of musical influences and style. True though, that the late 90s, early 00s bands are far more popular and well known overseas. It's simply that most of the  foreign oldschool fans are probably those who have gotten into VK in the early to mid 00s. Back then the style early Dir en grey, Syndrome, Malice Mizer or old Gazette had a style, which was really well-loved and some even emulated it (I remember the fashion accidents of self-proclaimed “Visus”. They looked more like Hot topic shopping mallgoths, ugh)

 

I also got into VK thanks to Dir en grey and D'espairsRay. From there I discovered some earlier late 90s groups like Malice Mizer or Luna Sea. Only then I slowly went back in time to find and love Laputa, ROUAGE, old Kuroyume, etc. I tend to favour super edgy kvlt VK from the late 90s indies period, but most of the early 90s stuff, especially anything with a heavy post-punk influence, is up to my alley. The problem though is, that apart from a few bigger “must know” groups like X or Luna Sea, the majority of really old VK bands have been forgotten outside Japan. Hell, there are even enough foreign VK fans nowadays who have no clue who Malice Mizer are.

 

I am no VK history expert and I always welcome people to enlighten me with more information. But as I know the Visual kei label didn't really become wildly used until the first half of the 90s, but VK and proto-VK bands date back as far as the mid 80s. So a lot of what we nowadays refer to oldschool Visual kei was originally not seen or tagged as such. Are Zi-Kill a Visual kei group? Many would say yes, because of the way they look and their band connections (and the label they were signed to). Other would say no and state that albeit being influential on the VK moevement, they were just a Rock band. True though, that VK was booming mostly in the first half to mid 90s and not late 90s. If I remember correctly, fans declared Visual kei dead already around 1998.

[seikun 317]

I listen to old school Visual Kei and it is the expression of Visual Kei that I mainly prefer. I practically don't listen to modern bands except if they release music that might have sounds and melodies reminiscent of old school Visual Kei to an appealing extent.

 

Some things I like about the sound of old school Visual kei that got me hooked when I was exposed to it are the hypnotic sinister melodies, the change in speed and melodies in one song, certain way of playing the drums (I don't know how to define it technically...), subliminal voices, the dramatic theatrical singing style, etc. I don't find those things too often in modern Visual Kei, not at least in the way old bands used to do it.

 

Fortunately for me, there are a few bands using that sound such as Crucifixion and La'Veil MiseriA and other bands that take some elements of the old sounds such as Sibile Bashir to name a few examples.

[niivozombie 30]

I am no VK history expert and I always welcome people to enlighten me with more information. But as I know the Visual kei label didn't really become wildly used until the first half of the 90s, but VK and proto-VK bands date back as far as the mid 80s. So a lot of what we nowadays refer to oldschool Visual kei was originally not seen or tagged as such. Are Zi-Kill a Visual kei group? Many would say yes, because of the way they look and their band connections (and the label they were signed to). Other would say no and state that albeit being influential on the VK moevement, they were just a Rock band. True though, that VK was booming mostly in the first half to mid 90s and not late 90s. If I remember correctly, fans declared Visual kei dead already around 1998.

That's the most interesting part for me, that obscure times when X and Color were on the rise. I listen to a few bands of that period (LUNA SEA, ZI:KILL, Dies in Cries, LUCI'FER LUSCIOUS Violenoue, Gilles de rais, etc.) but only recently I found myself REALLY interested in hearing more bands from that band. Even the so called proto visual kei bands like ROSEN KREUZ... I love that kind of happy-but-let's-not-exagerate-post-punk sound.

That's the reason I started this thread, it seems this community is full with people that really know their shit, and I couldn't wait to hear more names from that era.

 

 

Some things I like about the sound of old school Visual kei that got me hooked when I was exposed to it are the hypnotic sinister melodies, the change in speed and melodies in one song, certain way of playing the drums (I don't know how to define it technically...), subliminal voices, the dramatic theatrical singing style, etc. I don't find those things too often in modern Visual Kei, not at least in the way old bands used to do it.

 

Fortunately for me, there are a few bands using that sound such as Crucifixion and La'Veil MiseriA and other bands that take some elements of the old sounds such as Sibile Bashir to name a few examples.

 

I also LOVE that late 1990s early 2000s sound like Syndrome, Rentrer en soi, La:Sadies and early Dir en grey (can't get enough of the MISSA and GAUZE albums), so I'll be sure to check out those bands!

[Ikki 807]

Kote kei is usually defined as the stuff that came after the first wave of VK (1985-1994).  The first wave of VK was often labeled as Heavy Metal back in the day, the same label used for bands such as Loudness and Anthem. In fact most rock music that was heavier than pop rock was labeled as metal music in Japan during that period.

 

The 1985-1994 era is often called the "East vs West" era due to the playful rivalry between Extasy Records and Free-Will Records during the period.  I don't think there's an actual "kei" genre describing this period.  I freaking love this era of VK because the majority of the bands did not sound a like and I have spent a good several years researching random bands of this period.  Extasy was more metal and were Kanto based while Free-Will was more punk and were Kansai based.  (Very basic info.)  Most of the big bands were either signed to one of those two labels.  There are a handful that weren't; they often weren't as big as the Extasy or Free-Will groups, maybe with Strawberry Fields, D'erlanger, Aion, Justy-Nasty, and Aura being the exceptions. I could go on and on about random crap that no one cares about of this era.

 

Proto-VK bands were often formed before 1985 and have heavy connections to VK or were a huge influence; however, another major thing if a band is a proto-VK band is when was their first album released.  Most proto-VK bands have had albums released before 1988, while bands that are labeled as VK have their albums released in 1988.  Bands such as The Stalin, 44Magnum, and Gastunk are pretty much considered proto-VK.  You could argue Dead End, Flatbacker, Laughin' Nose, and Buck-Tick are proto-VK.  Hell, RC Succession and Loudness can be called proto-VK if you think about it.  Proto-VK is like proto-punk, it is the bands that influenced the bands that started the original visual kei scene.

[Takadanobabaalien 3607]

I think that everyone has their own opinion on what kotekote is and isn't, for me the typical kotekote sound was the sound that the majority of the Matina bands had. However, Japanese fans say kotekotekei to a lot of bands nowadays as well. I've even heard people saying Pentagon is kotekote kei. So while it's considered dead in the west, I don't think that's the case in Japan. Some people consider Phantasmagoria to be the last kotekote band (because around that time there was a new visual kei boom (neo vk)). Japanese wikipedia also says this (http://tinyurl.com/hnv6fk5). However, none of my Japanese friends have heard the phrase neo visual kei, but instead uses "kirakira" for these bands. 

 

Searcing for "kotekote" in a Japanese dictionary, you'll get the result "over the top, thickly, heavily, richly". And this is where the actual term comes from.

 

According to a site (vkei yougoshuu (lit: Words used in the visual kei scene)) kotekote kei means:

Dressing up in black clothes, punk and/or metal-ish stage satire, white painted face with white lenses, black lips and blood smeared on yourself.

 

Of course this is not a 100% definition, but it's nice to see Japanese people's point of view.

(source: http://73.xmbs.jp/yahoo-135524-ch.php?guid=on)

 

I personally wouldn't consider the first half of the 90's to be the "visual kei boom", but rather the later half. Simply because the 1st wave of visual kei bands got huge at the later half (X, LUNA SEA, GLAY, L'arc etc) as well as the huge indie boom that took place. Actually the end of the visual kei boom is also credited for the reason to why the indie label Key party had to disband. (Although this is at vkdb.jp, so shouldn't be credited as a real source, but it's nice to see the thoughts of Japanese people). 

 

Also, there was a term before the term "visual kei" was "founded" (Yoshiko a.k.a. visual kei oyaji was the first person to ever use the phrase visual kei in media, however he credits hide of X Japan to being the one who coined the phrase). The original term for the early/proto visual kei bands was Keshou kei band (Make-up bands).

[Lestat 2167]

 

Also, there was a term before the term "visual kei" was "founded" (Yoshiko a.k.a. visual kei oyaji was the first person to ever use the phrase visual kei in media, however he credits hide of X Japan to being the one who coined the phrase). The original term for the early/proto visual kei bands was Keshou kei band (Make-up bands).

 

You're actually slightly wrong there (and I think almost everyone is, simply because X Japan was more popular so the phrase was connected easily to Yoshiki), it was used earlier by a metal band called Murbas on a demo-tape called 'Visual Violence' released in 1982. Blue Blood wasn't released until 1989. But it's just how people interpret it, I suppose.

 

 

Murbas

 

Also, in the late 70's a Japanese designer group opened a store called 'Visual Scandal' which focused on extravagant clothing styles and accessoires. In 1980 this group actually formed as a band and called themselves 'Visual Scandal', as well. So I don't actually think Yoshiki was the first one to use the term. 'Kei' merely means 'Style' or something of the sort, so it could very well be that Visual Scandal and Murbas would already call themselves such.

 

 

Visual Scandal

[Takadanobabaalien 3607]

You're actually slightly wrong there (and I think almost everyone is, simply because X Japan was more popular so the phrase was connected easily to Yoshiki), it was used earlier by a metal band called Murbas on a demo-tape called 'Visual Violence' released in 1982. Blue Blood wasn't released until 1989. But it's just how people interpret it, I suppose.

 

Murbas

 

Also, in the late 70's a Japanese designer group opened a store called 'Visual Scandal' which focused on extravagant clothing styles and accessoires. In 1980 this group actually formed as a band and called themselves 'Visual Scandal', as well. So I don't actually think Yoshiki was the first one to use the term. 'Kei' merely means 'Style' or something of the sort, so it could very well be that Visual Scandal and Murbas would already call themselves such.

 

Visual Scandal

 

Never heard of that last band, pretty cool!

Although this is information from Hoshiko himself and an article in a magazine from the early 90's. I guess the reason hide actually is credited might be because he was the first one in X to refer the bands to "visual kei", as well as Yoshiki owning Extasy records. I doubt Murbas nor Visual scandal had little to nothing in common with the vk scene at that time (besides the make-up and stage attire), but of course I could be wrong.

Also Murbas used Visual violence (as you can read in the pic you posted), I just posted regarding the phrase "visual kei", which has been credited to Hoshiki and/or hide.

[hyura 465]

I think that everyone has their own opinion on what kotekote is and isn't, for me the typical kotekote sound was the sound that the majority of the Matina bands had. However, Japanese fans say kotekotekei to a lot of bands nowadays as well.

 

Pretty much.

I think the golden age of kotekote so to speak was around 00 where almost every band on the scene tried to fit as much leather, blood, haircolors and eyeliner as possible.

 

 

But in general the term refers to any band with an over the top dark image (look, sound, lyrics and stage persona) and there's still tons of those around.

 

 

Many earlier 90s bands, even those with gothy antics I wouldn't refer to as kotekote, they had a much simpler, less flamboyant sense of style overall.

 

 

Although it did exist back then, of course.

 

[Ikki 807]

I doubt Murbas nor Visual scandal had little to nothing in common with the vk scene at that time (besides the make-up and stage attire), but of course I could be wrong.

Also Murbas used Visual violence (as you can read in the pic you posted), I just posted regarding the phrase "visual kei", which has been credited to Hoshiki and/or hide.

However, Murbas had Youichi "Heesey" Hirose in the group, who is better known for being in The Yellow Monkey.  You know, that one glam rock group that some people consider to be a VK band.  Heesey used to run around the same group of people that various members of Extasy band did during the late '80s/early '90s, especially members of Ladies Room whom hide was super close with.  I wouldn't take it past any VK musicians to take a friend's/peer's idea and label it their own, especially those early bands.

 

Also, I have never heard keshou kei being used exclusively for early VK.  I have seen glam metal bands (like Poison and Cinderella) and glam rock bands (Sweet and New York Dolls) being labeled that before. It's like saying "visual rock" is exclusive for artists like Alice Cooper or KISS, when all VK bands are visual rock bands as well.

[Bear 1817]

You're actually slightly wrong there (and I think almost everyone is, simply because X Japan was more popular so the phrase was connected easily to Yoshiki), it was used earlier by a metal band called Murbas on a demo-tape called 'Visual Violence' released in 1982. Blue Blood wasn't released until 1989. But it's just how people interpret it, I suppose.

 

Murbas

 

Someone should seriously re-release the Murbas tapes. Like right fucking now!

[Pretsy 1343]

Funny how ones easily lump X and Luna Sea into the same wave of VK despite the fact that during X's indie AND major reign there was no clear umbrella definition nor textbook example of what counts as "visual" - "flamboyant" maybe but I haven't seen any media of those days mentioning "visual style" seriously. Before someone loses their shit over my statements, make sure to define why media "has no effect" on visual kei as a public trend tag.

 

Moreover, X and Yoshers have got too much biased credit for VK even though they might have some for discovering the first major vk talent (LUNA SEA, again). Shouldn't we discuss how BT or similar acts have affected the first reign of visual bands back then? Their influence is rather significant, even for late-90s bands (as someone already mentioned, the actual "blooming" of visual kei in general)!

 

I don't want to spoil this discussion with memes but c'mon, it's 2016 - who even buys "MUH VISUAL KEI MUH X JAPAN" claims anymore?

[seikun 317]

L'arc en ciel hated to be called a Visual kei band...

Why is that, by the way?

[Pretsy 1343]

L'arc en ciel hated to be called a Visual kei band...

Why is that, by the way?

Considering that this abstinence from tagging might stem from Yukihiro era:

 

1) public stigmas regarding VK when we discuss actual Japanese (media-influenced) POVs (post-Tierra adventures had their own share of public jeering towards VK but not to the same extent as in post-Heart days)

2) VK past also includes their ex-drummer who got the whole band into some serious troubles* due to his drug case. Hence certain critics citing formerly mentioned 1997 scandal as "the final nail in the coffin of their visual kei era" (i.e. at this point they actually *had* reasons to call NO on visual associations).

 

 

*temporary blackout of media presences, tabloid hulabaloos, major "VK = rocker = junkie = bad guy"-mindsets in public etc.

[seikun 317]

Considering that this abstinence from tagging might stem from Yukihiro era:

 

1) public stigmas regarding VK when we discuss actual Japanese (media-influenced) POVs (post-Tierra adventures had their own share of public jeering towards VK but not to the same extent as in post-Heart days)

2) VK past also includes their ex-drummer who got the whole band into some serious troubles* due to his drug case. Hence certain critics citing formerly mentioned 1997 scandal as "the final nail in the coffin of their visual kei era" (i.e. at this point they actually *had* reasons to call NO on visual associations).

 

 

*temporary blackout of media presences, tabloid hulabaloos, major "VK = rocker = junkie = bad guy"-mindsets in public etc.

 

I wonder if they are still as prejudiced towards VK as they were at the moment of this event you mention. HYDE cultivates a look very much Visual Kei-ish and has worked with VK artists l in recent years such as Tatsurou (MUCC).

[desparejo86 160]

I wonder if they are still as prejudiced towards VK as they were at the moment of this event you mention. HYDE cultivates a look very much Visual Kei-ish and has worked with VK artists l in recent years such as Tatsurou (MUCC).

 

I think that all the bands from that era have lightened up and are finally embracing their visual roots. Luna Sea put on their old stage clothes and rerecorded their debut, and Dir en Grey seem to be experimenting with being a visual kei band again (in their own way and on their own terms, per usual with them)

 

In the 90s visual kei was an exploding fad, and no band wants to admit they're a part of the fad, because it both puts them in a box musically and also suggests they didn't entirely make it on their own merits. Many landmark bands from other movements like goth, emo, metalcore, numetal, etc. have rejected being called such as well for similar reasons.

[blackdoll 907]

 

"B.R.N" by Insanity Injection

One half old-school kote kei charm..... this is the most inspired revival kei sound I've heard in quite some time. 

 

 

can some explain this? I hear zero old school.

[Lestat 2167]

 

can some explain this? I hear zero old school.

 

Perhaps you should start by listening to Aliene Maφriage.

[blackdoll 907]

Perhaps you should start by listening to Aliene Maφriage.

Perhaps old school is just really new school, with better production?

[hyura 465]

"B.R.N" by Insanity Injection

 

can some explain this? I hear zero old school.

 

Well it depends on your definition of the word 'oldschool'.

Definition in this thread was early 90's vk.

 

Does anybody listen to old visual kei, like early 90's kind of stuff?

 

In that case I agree. Can't think of any vk band from that time that sounds similar to Insanity injection.

 

@CAT5 propably referred to a completely different era. Things looked a little different 10 years later. ; D

[blackdoll 907]

In that case I agree. Can't think of any vk band from that time that sounds similar to Insanity injection.

 

 

thank you

 

Aliene Maφriage, i herd btw