How Do You Know They are Just Showing Off?

[jduv86 224]

I've noticed that sometimes when someone hears a song on here by particular bands, they say some of the members are just showing off. Can't remember who, but someone said this in regards to Kazuki of SCREW..I think something like "we get it, you can play guitar"...something of that nature. And it has also been said about Mia in Mejibray. What do you think? When does it cross the line between showing your skill and looking cool while doing it to just showing off?

[JukaForever 758]

I don't know much about SCREW but there are times where Mejibray has solos and it seems like it is there for no reason other than to have solos. Or when the solo doesn't add anything to the song or just doesn't vibe well with the rest of the song. I think that is when it can come off as "showing off" but the burden of proof goes to the person making those claims whether or not it is just part of the song the band chose to put on.

[Peace Heavy mk II 7200]

Obligasolos: D is notorious for them.

[Zeus 7997]

I've noticed that sometimes when someone hears a song on here by particular bands, they say some of the members are just showing off. Can't remember who, but someone said this in regards to Kazuki of SCREW..I think something like "we get it, you can play guitar"...something of that nature. And it has also been said about Mia in Mejibray. What do you think? When does it cross the line between showing your skill and looking cool while doing it to just showing off?

In visual kei that line doesn't really exist. Visual kei is all about selling yourself, exaggerating your posture/facial expressions/actions, and generally being dramatic while playing music. To say they're "trying too hard" and to leave it at that reeks of criticism for the sake of criticizing and it doesn't sound very convincing or relevant. After all, neither you or I really know what they mean by that. Visual kei bands can't try too hard. The vast majority of them (including the two bands you listed) could do with a bit of trying harder.

 

Obligasolos are something I have noticed from time to time. However, I don't mind. I'd rather a solo that doesn't fit than a breakdown that doesn't fit.

 

[Ikna 1225]

In visual kei that line doesn't really exist. Visual kei is all about selling yourself, exaggerating your posture/facial expressions/actions, and generally being dramatic while playing music. To say they're "trying too hard" and to leave it at that reeks of criticism for the sake of criticizing and it doesn't sound very convincing or relevant. After all, neither you or I really know what they mean by that. Visual kei bands can't try too hard. The vast majority of them (including the two bands you listed) could do with a bit of trying harder.

 

 

^^^

I think if VK bands would stop with their over the top stage antics and cheesiness a lot of their appeal would get lost. What got me into VK was actually the fact, that they were extremely overexaggerting in anything (from visuals to perfomances to the music).

To be honest, most VK PVs are just posing around. And even though it looks totally ridiculous most of the time, it still has it's own charme. I especially like this PV for all of it's amazing VK dance moves and hand waving like the vocalist is trying to summon something from another dimension:

 

 

(sadly the HQ version is gone, so bear with that pixelated mess)

[Lestat 2167]

^ That video reminds me of 

 

[relentless 254]

Don't guitar solos (or a solo passage from practically any instrument) have their roots in virtuosity, and a means of "showing off"? If that is to be considered "trying too hard", then nearly every solo can be said to be "trying too hard".

 

 

The difficulty with something like this, is that there is this massive grey area for what people can consider a "good" or "show off-y" solo. On one hand you have someone like Malmsteen who gets a ton of shit for his virtuosity, and on the other Kurt Cobain who rarely ventured outside of the C major scale, was technically subpar, yet a simple passage from Smells Like Teen Spirit gets praise for "the emotions, maaaannn". This problem becomes even more difficult if you're looking at VK - a movement of music that is varied in sound and skill, yet also driven mainly by presentation.

 

 

God, there is so much that I would like to say; but I am forcing myself to boil this down as much as I can for the sake of any readers. If we are to assess what solos are "trying too hard" and which aren't, I feel like the key is to determine the placement in the given song, and look at ALL other solos by that band/composer to determine their placement and their affect.

 

If a band has a solo in the same place in every single song, then maybe we can consider that "trying too hard"; but that risks attempting to discredit virtuosity as its own art form. Virtuosity deserves just as much appreciation as other aspects of music; but too often it can be dismissed as someone trying "too hard" (or another bullshit argument such as "lack of creativity").

[Peace Heavy mk II 7200]

ugh Nirvana stans are worst than the bee hive

 

I thought Yngwie was slept on because he writes good solos, but he has an issue with making his music interesting to listen to in other aspects? From the few songs I've heard of his, that seemed to be the case: soloing was great, but the rest of the track, with the exception of few cool bass lines, was pretty much on par with having a human metronome playing with him. For example: 

 

 

 

 

My ~*~biggest issue~*~ with the kind of soloing I mentioned earlier is when it's blatant that there's a guitar solo put in because "that's what you're supposed to do in a rock song!!!!" I really don't care if it's sweeping arpeggios or weird bending noises or scratchy static effects or if it's super simple--a solo doesn't have to be Hizaki-tier for me to like it. However, when it's uninspired, fairly out of place, and monumentally short (insert generic vkei w / 8 second solo here) then it's more of a problem. That problem isn't  them "trying too hard": like Zess said, the problem is that they aren't trying enough. I get that the point of vkei is to sell an image, which is why there is, more often than not, always 5 member bands even if you clearly don't need 2 guitar parts any of their songs (or when there are 4~6 guitar lines going on at once for some feedback-kei couture), but at least try to come off as less uninspired???

 

It's amazing that a scene that has the platform to do virtually anything in terms of image or genre flat out just doesn't lmao; but that's a different discussion that strays from this topic. 

[relentless 254]

ugh Nirvana stans are worst than the bee hive

 

I thought Yngwie was slept on because he writes good solos, but he has an issue with making his music interesting to listen to in other aspects? From the few songs I've heard of his, that seemed to be the case: soloing was great, but the rest of the track, with the exception of few cool bass lines, was pretty much on par with having a human metronome playing with him.

 

 

Yeah, that ties into his virtuosity in a way because everything is just a showcase for his talents. It's similar to the ""we get it, you can play guitar"" thing that jduv86 mentioned. People consider the playing great; but there's not a whole lot of creativity involved outside of his shredding. It's kinda similar to Paganini and how people look back at his music.

[Peace Heavy mk II 7200]

I didn't know Paganini had received averse reactions other than people thought he sold his soul to the devil 

[jduv86 224]

In visual kei that line doesn't really exist. Visual kei is all about selling yourself, exaggerating your posture/facial expressions/actions, and generally being dramatic while playing music. To say they're "trying too hard" and to leave it at that reeks of criticism for the sake of criticizing and it doesn't sound very convincing or relevant. After all, neither you or I really know what they mean by that. Visual kei bands can't try too hard. The vast majority of them (including the two bands you listed) could do with a bit of trying harder.

 

Obligasolos are something I have noticed from time to time. However, I don't mind. I'd rather a solo that doesn't fit than a breakdown that doesn't fit.

 

 

There was no criticism to be reeked...in fact, I wasn't criticizing at al...It was a general question about something I've observed from others on here. I have a hard time understanding why a person would say it's showing off when like you said that's really what VK is about. 

[Number Girl 48]

I've only heard that phrase when applied to (not visual kei) metal artists and I'm personally conflicted on how I feel about those statements. On one hand, I have a personal preference for music where overly elaborate or drawn-out guitar solos are not the main focus, but when it comes to metal or similar genres, guitar solos have been pretty much all about "showing off." It's supposed to get the audience pumped up, get the adrenaline racing, and to be dramatic, loud, and aggressive as possible. 

 

I think as long as the "larger picture" of the song is good, then it doesn't really matter to me, but if you're just slapping guitar solos together and don't really have a strongly overall written song going for you, you just make people bored after a while. I think that's really what people mean when they say things like that. 

[Shmilly 519]

I agree with most people in that showing off is basically the essence of visual kei. Did it not start out with 'visual shock'? If VK bands are trying to be dramatic and impress the crowd, that pretty much marks them as VK to me. Even when I've seen super indie bands who don't even have a single out they're giving off this same flair and that's what makes the scene what it is. If I saw a visual band and they just stood in place and performed I would be somewhat unimpressed (even if the music was of a high standard).

 

Although there's obviously a point where you can objectively criticize a song by looking at its composition or its individual parts, and there are times where solos are not really necessary, a lot of these comments seem more likely to be coming from people who simply don't like the music (or occasionally even just the band in question). And to those people I say, find something else to listen to.

[hyura 465]

While I agree with the general consent here in that 'showing off' and exaggerating things is an important element of visual kei I've had that feeling a couple times.

A solo that feels out of place and does more for the bandmember playing it than for the song as a whole.

Or pvs that feel a bit awkward because they are more like showcases for how fast everyone can play while making cute faces.

[Tetora 625]

It`s not showing off if you can back it up.

 

But in any case, the essence of Electric Lead Guitar has always been flopping around on stage, making crazy faces, keeping a solo going for as long as you can, or just belting out loud riffs to the audience.

 

From Chuck Berry, and others of his time who inspired Rock and Roll / Classic Rock, to Angus Young of AC/DC (watch one of his live performances and tell me any VK artist comes that close to going over-the-top), to Van Halen (IMO one of the closest to playing solos just for the sake of attention, solos like in the song Jump I would honestly say are just there for the sake of having a solo and actually steal momentum from the song), to Randy Rhodes, etc...

 

As for Yngwie and Paganini not being creative but being more about virtuoso`s showing off, I dont get that.

 

Paganini and his Caprices changed music, showed people how you can use the Chromatic scale in ways not many has thought of, or been able to implement into compositions seamlessly, and inspired countless musicians... Nothing really sounds like him either.

 

Yngwie changed guitar. Rising Force was an album that changed everyones perception of what could be done in guitar, especially in modern genres. He is the one that changed the fact that songs were still composed in Box Scales and Regular Major or Minor Chords endlessly, and only certain tempos and phrasing was used. From him spawned a new generation of guitarists, and Rock / Metal was never the same. People started `shredding`, using different chords, scales such as Phrygian, Lydian more, etc... Tracks like Black Sun, Now your Ships are Burned, Icarus Suite etc... changed music, and it was never about showing off, it was his style, and how he composed music inspired by a mix of classical and modern. Live he showed off for sure, but on albums you can look at every note, how cleanly he plays it, how it all makes sense within the composition, how the phrasing all ties together, etc... Guitarists in VK such as Hizaki, etc... are based pretty closely off his style.

 

And as far as VK live, I agree with others that I wish there is more action and charisma, more flair, etc... I can appreciate a stoic member or band, but I also crave wild stuff like a TMR, Gackt, SuG (Takeru goes all out big or small venue) VAMPS, SID, DOG,  Alice Nine (around Vandalize album) concert. Seems more like the older bands and members in Japan are the ones that really deliver a performance and the younger ones need to catch up? Anyone have any good live performers to add?

 

If anyone is familiar with things in Kabuki like Mie, etc... I feel like more of that should be incorporated into lives nowadays, but then again, a lot of bands play shows in smaller venues most of the time leading up to one big show, and they play for audiences full of fans that go wild for whatever they do, so do some of these bands even have as much of a chance to learn and be big performers? All they have to do is scream Kakattekoi, or play a solo standing on the platform and the crowd pees themselves.

 

But if you play repeated big venues you have to keep them coming back, have to play to people who may not be as big fans, etc...

 

Also, if you play Inazuma Rock, and other stuff like that, you are competing with many other huge bands and have to steal the show or you might not be coming back.

 

Just some of my opinions...

[blackdoll 907]

Visual kei bands can't try too hard. The vast majority of them (including the two bands you listed) could do with a bit of trying harder.

 

What would you suggest to them so they wouldn't need that "bit of trying harder." ?

[Bear 1817]

In my eyes there's no doubt whatsoever that someone like Yngwie J. Malmsteen just loves to show of and adds things to his albums just because he loves to show off his skills, and not because they add anything to the music itself. I consider both Rising Force and Marching Out as masterpieces, and I fucking love me some Yngwie. But let's be honest, it's obvious that a lot of the solos on both albums are there just for the sake of being there, and a lot of them are long just for the sake of being long, and a lot of them are technical as fuck just for the sake of being technical as fuck, and not because they add anything to the songs themself, because they don't. But don't get me wrong, I love it and a lot of there obviously is there because they add something extra to the music.

 

 

Fantastic!