Lyrics - how much do they matter?

[Peace Heavy mk II 7200]

I haven't made a discussion topic in a while, so I've come up with this one.

 

Essentially, do lyrics matter enough to you that you go out and find translations or actively translate them yourself? Is lyrical integrity as important as musical integrity? How easily do you remember the words to a song, especially in a language you aren't fluent in?And lastly, how receptive would you be to a song that had 'lyrics' but weren't in any language at all? Essentially, a song with completely made up words made to sound like a different language.

 

This can be applied to songs of any language. I actually do listen to music that isn't in Japanese and find that language doesn't always make much of a difference when it comes to whether or not I enjoy it. I do have a personal preference of liking how phonetic Japanese sounds, but I'll explain that in the following paragraph. I do like to poke around the internet to see if anyone has already translated a song I like, but more often than not, I don't really consider lyrics to be all too critical.

 

Essentially, when I remember a song I store it in my brain in terms of pitch. I'm very good at remembering melodies and rhythmic patterns, but -awful- at remembering words unless I seriously pay attention and actively force myself to remember lyrics. This also happens in songs in my native language: I normally don't even process what the words are the first few times I hear a song, but begin to pick up on them once I'm more familiar with all of the other sounds first. That's why I've never been able to follow that learning philosophy of "Make a song to remember your notes!!!!," because I'd be too busy remembering things like key changes and counter melodies instead of the actual content.

 

Occasionally, I am able to pick up on full sentences in Japanese, or at least of snippets of sentences. This works best with broken English. "I'LL FOR YOU," "SEXUaLy EXSHYTED bY YoUR CARRAH BOnE IZ ME," "Head will lol," "Our crans brud will not stop foleba," etc. 

 

I do, however, try to translate song titles. I found that it did help a bit with learning Japanese to use a dictionary to try and figure out what song titles meant, but only to a certain degree. A lot of titles use slang or word plays that don't make a bit of sense to non-native speakers, so there is a limit to how fruitful that venture can be. Plus, my Japanese class never got to the 'angsty songs about abortion' chapter, so all of the words I learned weren't really used ...ever, actually.

 

As for lyrical integrity, it isn't as much of a big deal to me as lifting a melodic passage from a song. I do pick up on lyrics being 'influenced' all the time, most notably in R&B songs I hear every now and again, but it doesn't offend me all too much.

[TheBistroButcher666 228]

Lyrics are usually the last thing I care about in a song. Even songs in my native language the lyrics are usually the last thing I try and learn.

 

Honestly I can't explain why I don't care about lyrics, for me it's just not a priority when it comes to music. I have friends and acquaintances that HAVE to know the lyrics to a song or they just can't enjoy the music. I can see why with people that enjoy singing to a song or folks that enjoy translating but for me lyrics simply aren't a priority. 

 

I also try to avoid learning the lyrics, especially for the blackened blackity blackblack metal stuff I like because the lyrics can often ruin a song for me. Mostly if they're just absurdly stupid or something like that. I'm also not a fan of funny lyrics so songs like 'This is a Pen' from Ensoku is not interesting or even funny to me. I think you have to sniff paint to think that is a good song. If the song didn't suck to begin with but was actually good I might like it if he was screaming This is a Pen in Japanese. Then I wouldn't be able to understand how retarded that song is.

 

I figure I'd mention but I cannot stand listening to full Engrish songs. It probably has to do with the above paragraph about funny lyrics or dumb lyrics ruining a song for me. You'd think that as someone that doesn't care about lyrics that Engrish songs would be something I'd be fine with. Yet Engrish songs are like nails on chalkboard to me especially when the song doesn't even sound like English and is instead some sort of abomination of the language. An example would be Versailles' Love Will Be Born Again I could not listen to that song without cringing in pain. For some reason it just sounds so wrong to my ears, maybe doesn't help that it was Kamijo of all people singing. It depends on the extent of how Engrishy it is to me, Kamijo needs to stop forever but YAMA-B is totally fine. Tid bits of Engrish sprinkled into a song don't really bother me but if it's 4-6 minutes of mumbling nonsense I just want to choke the singer. It really gets a negative reaction out of me hahaha!

[miyuu 40]

i used to not care about lyrics as much as i do now.

some lyricists are  poets and  some just write crap but the music is decent so people don't care.

last years i find interesting reading the lyrics. it makes me either love the artist more or think he is an idiot.

i am having fun if i care about a band to searching things from someones personallity in their lyrics.

i mean do you think you can tell somethings from an artist personality from their lyrics?

 

 

[evilcoconut 109]

Lyrics in languages I don't fluently understand don't matter to me at all. I rarely to never look up translations and I rarely attempt to translate them myself if I happen to have a working ability in the language.  I can't help but understand song titles in say, French or Japanese, but I won't spend time trying to figure out even the gist of the song tbh.

 

As far as English goes, I have a hard time with really stupid lyrics. If I can easily understand what's being said and I disagree with or find it retarded, then it really doesn't matter how great the music is, I won't be able to listen to it.  This is mostly why I don't listen to much English music lol.

 

As for a made-up language, sure why not.  In fact, Sa Dingding sings a few songs in a made-up language.  What's the difference between that and another language I  have zero understanding of?  To me, none.

 

ETA , the Engrish thing.  For me it depends on how understandable the Engrish is.  For example, if I can't make out a single English word  (i.e. Koki in Black and White), it doesn't bother me.  But if I can hear things like "liding into the sunset" and similar awful pronunciation, I'm very likely to never listen to that song again.

[hyura 465]

Actually lyrics are very important to me.

This might even be the reason why I prefer to listen to music in languages like english and japanese that I do understand partly when just listening and better when reading but not nearly with as much sensitivity for word usage and balance as I have in my native language.

I don't listen and never listened to a lot of german artists because I just can't ignore the words if I don't like them. I can, however, do that in other languages and fully enjoy the songs.

As for japanese bands I buy original releases mostly for the booklets and beside just reading and looking up stuff I don't know I also translate songs when I have time.

Of course the importance of the lyrics is different in each artist and each track but I really really like bands like Madeth Gray'll who create a whole universe by making songs and releases connected to each other, put riddles and hidden meaning into everything. I also like the 'excerpts' from imaginary short stories, poems and novels that hisui wrote to accompany and explain lots of their songs. I liked this band before I understood even one word so it's not the most important thing in the world, but it put listening to their music on a whole new level for me.

[Guest pixyfalse01.]

I think lyrics is the most important in music.
It gives you message, feelings, emotions, thoughts. It speaks to your mind and can touch your heart.
If the music is simple, but the lyrics is brilliant, worth more for me, than the reverse.
But, the most of visual kei band...
Better if you don't try to translate.

You will be very disappointed, cause the most of lyrics just very stupid and repeat themselves about common themes. And most of common theme just an easy ridiculous love story, without true feelings, thoughts, situations.

By the way i stopped to translate many Lin song because "oh Riku, again an easy stupid love story for 14y old girls!? bye"

[Gizorz 24]

I think lyrics is the most important in music.

It gives you message, feelings, emotions, thoughts. It speaks to your mind and can touch your heart.

If the music is simple, but the lyrics is brilliant, worth more for me, than the reverse.

But, the most of visual kei band...

Better if you don't try to translate.

You will be very disappointed, cause the most of lyrics just very stupid and repeat themselves about common themes. And most of common theme just an easy ridiculous love story, without true feelings, thoughts, situations.

By the way i stopped to translate many Lin song because "oh Riku, again an easy stupid love story for 14y old girls!? bye"

 

I realy agree with the second part of your post. I personally don't find lyrics to be the most important part of a song, but if a song has good lyrics I will love it even more and if the lyrics are terrible, like with most visual kei bands I might even start to hate it. I started out translating lyrics as practice and it definitely has ruined some vk bands for me.

[kyotaku 0]

I really care about the lyrics and what the song is about. If I don't like the message of the song I will not listen to it again...

Vocal and lyrics are equally important to me as other parts of music, like guitars or drums. There is a reason vocalists don't simply go 'lalalala' and they try to convey some message. If they have nothing to say, then, well, why should I listen to them?

And for me this is about music in any language. If I don't know the language I will try to look up translation over net, in this age it's not difficult.

Not caring about the lyrics can lead to many ridiculous situations, with my best example I witnessed being Cee Lo Green's "F**k you" being dedicated to someone during the wedding... It is such a lovely song, isn't it? XD

[Number Girl 48]

I think decent lyrics are usually a "bonus" for me.

 

When it comes to Japanese artists, I enjoy translations for the sheer fact that it satisfies my curiosity about the meaning of the song but I don't see them as necessary for my enjoyment of the music or the band. I've realized that English translators on the internet can make any weepy, emo song about being in the "friend zone" into beautiful poetry with a little bit of imagination and so I've stopped basing my judgement off of translations. I honestly don't think I'll ever be able to fully appreciate some lyrics without a bit of knowledge of the Japanese language - but that's just my view. The important part for me is the sound of the vocalist, the melody, and the atmosphere of the song as a whole. 

 

For English songs, lyrics matter slightly more but I've realized that it isn't a huge difference. I enjoy tons of hip-hop/rap and pop songs that come on the radio that have incredibly shallow/dumb lyrics, but when an artist does have very thoughtful or moving lyrics I share a deeper connection with the song than I would a song in Japanese. 

[JukaForever 758]

I would say Japanese music is my outlet from my other main genre which is Hip-Hop where lyrics are basically everything. The only English lyrics that I don't mind are poetic ones much like Billy Talent sings. But regular ones are just a NO most of the time. I personally like the Japanese language sung, it just sounds beautiful especially when done poetically. That's what I get off of lyrics but for meanings, I don't really care much since the way the lyrics are sung is good enough to give a feeling to the meaning (like TAION or most of Versailles songs). 

 

I am not sure if the bands I choose to follow matters. I don't normally follow oshare types since its too bright and sparkly and I am not sure if their songs can have much meaning in the first place.

[kevinmaccioly 7]

I try to find the translated lyrics when possible. If I can't, no big deal

[Guest mitsubana]

Lyrics are important to me. I like to know what the bands I like are saying in their songs. Even if to someone the bands' lyrics I like may not be the best lyrics, to me they are meaningful and important. But that's just me~ To each their own.

[Slsr 207]

Well, I'm fairly OK not understanding lyrics as I'm kinda used to that as not understanding all that much Japanese :x, though not like I pay them crazy much attention anyway usually, even if I understood them... But still, surely it is cool to know lyrics, especially if it is band you really like, I feel it gives more meaning to song,  in melancholic/sad song even more so. So yeah, if there is lyrics available in web for song I like but don't understand lyrically, I might even try to translate it a bit to see what it is all about at least. 

[Lestat 2167]

Basically the only lyrics I read are Kisaki's. Actually I've never found much need in commenting on every sentence that's lacking proper English or something, same goes for translations of the Japanese lyrics. They're never really 100% accurate anyway even though you can get some feeling of what message is being written.

 

Being an avid writer I think it's actually sort of strange that I don't really pay attention to lyrics of the Japanese bands I listen to. Even if they're just English songs, if it has a good flow and is possible to sing along to, it's fine for me since I don't specifically have to relate myself to every song I hear or point out the flaws in some lyrics.

I also never get really disappointed when I read lyrics for a first time after having liked a long for a long time, and they plainly suck. It doesn't change anything for me at all.

[Sakura Seven 593]

I like them A LOT! I can't listen to certain bands because they have terrible lyrics. (Born, Juka, etc..) 

 

My favorite lyricists are Temari and Hitomi. Kon is also pretty good! I really enjoy poetry so maybe that's why it's important to me!  Bye! 

[DogManX 179]

Every now and then I look up some lyrics for the sake of having them looked up. It's sort of medium importance for me, but I do find them important. BUT only if they are not ghostwritten, they have to be real.

[Guest MollyMouse]

A song is meant to tell a story. So yes lyrics can be important. HOWEVER ,  That doesn't mean that it is the only thing that makes a song a good song. The lyrics can be MIND BLOWING but the song can still suck if it isn't very good.

Also , it doesn't HAVE to have lyrics though. You can get a story out of a song with no lyrics...its called imagination <3 Another point is humans like music in general because the vibrations rub our insides together which feels good.

So basically lyrics are important when they are being used but they arnt needed to make a good song.

 

And for the case of lyrics in a language that Im not fluent in , they still matter and I like to look them up to understand the story. Though sometimes I don't have to know all the words to get the idea. Music has no language yes but that doesn't mea you shouldn't look up the translation and know what you are hearing.

I can remember the lyrics to music in another language I either don't speak or don't speak very well...because I practice...A LOT ;w;...(meaning I listen to music 96% of the time lol)

 

nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn I guess in a made up language would be fine as long as there IS a story to it and you were given at least SOME ways of figuring that story....though it could be fun to come up with your own meanings to the words and create your own story ^w^

 

this is just my opinion.

[blackdoll 907]

they dont matter at all, as long it sounds good

[Bear 1817]

I can appreciate good or just fitting lyrics, but it's not important at all. I enjoy plenty of bands with awful lyrics.

[miyuu 40]

 lyrics can make me love someone more or find him more interesting or stupid if they are bad and then i won't admire him.
but music is equally important. my last example is i saw what kyo did without deg's music.
i may like his lyrics but without deg's music i wouldn't have notice him. (at all probably /wouldn't care)
but also without his lyrics  i wouldn't love some deg's songs as much.

 

i have read interviews that music shouldn't be about understanding lyrics .it should be about what you feel.
but  lyrics sometimes make you feel too and change your perspective of a song.
it's awesome if you can have both.

 

edit: but i quess i listen too to many bands with random lyrics and i don't care about them as long as then music is ok

[relentless 254]

In regards to critique, Japanese lyrics get 0 attention, and judging from responses here, that is partially true outside of Japan as well. Lyrics matter just as much as any other instrument in the presentation, and to dismiss them would be to dismiss the music entirely. Lyrical critique (and critique in general) was never really done in Japan; but once you look outside of Japan, lyrics become far more significant in how it shapes a work. Whether it's Rap focusing on flow and the delivery of lines, or Opera which emphasizes the libretto, lyrics hold this huge importance that is a bit different from its focus in Japanese works. For example: The classic Opera (and one that defined the later German Romanticism of Wagner) "Oberon" by Carl Maria von Weber is rarely performed because of its weak libretto (lyrics).

 

Bad Japanese lyrics are rarely critiqued. It's the poor "Engrish" lyrics that get the attention; but even then it's largely about pronunciation and only occasionally delves into content.

 

In Japanese music, lyrics should be a huge focus; but it doesn't seem like it gets the respect it deserves.

[rebelstrik 111]

If the song sounds nice, i like it. Usualy i dont check/pay attention to the lyrics, but when i do, they look ok. At least for the bands i am listening.

[Flame-X 441]

I could care less what they sing about as long as it sounds good. But the engrish though, that can be a real turn off sometimes. The latest Blood Stain Child single, Last Stardust, was unbearable to listen to.

[Qliffot 118]

When I was a child, boldly admitting of being a goth, I thought lyrics meant for me the most and the music itself had only secondary, if not tertiary meaning, as long as it was an underground piece of noise. In these times I mostly admired Batcave, German Neue Deutsche Todeskunst, later some jazzy avant-garde black metal and neo-folk/industrial, the particular genres still important in my so-called life. However since I listen to Japanese music as well, things in some way changed, although during very long period I was too afraid to declare this simply fact before myself. I rather used to pretend I'm studying Japanese with great help of Internet sources and one book I especially bought in this purpose. But all-in-all, once have I found out, I never will be a good translator from Japanese and shall never clearly sense and understand all linguistic nuances. To tell You no lies, I went to some kind of inner reconciliation: the music, especially Japanese, in general means for me something as long, as You've got some beautiful key-words. Let's quote just a few: 自殺、絶望、血、惨劇、狂人、月夜、罪人 and many similar ones. All, what does make this gothic portrait so romantically shivering, mesmerizes me instantly and I'm Your slave, if You just say me such a Japanese noun with dramatic shriek or whisper. And I even don't pretend, it has to possess any exclusive meaning. As if this schematic themes ever any had lol.

 

So concluding, I'm still identifying myself with some of best lyrics (let's say written by Kyo/Dir en grey) and have mad pleasure of reading another ones (recently: LEON yesterday). The thing is that I do not believe in them anymore, ergo not care of any deeper meaning. And if it doesn't have any special meaning worth of research, then why even bother to focus on the topic, huh?