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Do you mean music should be shocking for the sake of being shocking? I for one am against this kind of idea. To me, music should be interesting, entertaining and creative. The "shock value" sometimes happens to come with it because it is challenging certain repressive values in a society like someone said. For example, you can't deny that visual kei aesthetics old or new are challenging conservative or gender images in Japan's society, to fulfil certain audience's and musicians' wishes. I know it's not shocking anymore. And it doesn't have to be. Visual kei as well as some of today's pop stars' fashion and styling (look at Kyary Pamyu Pamyu), which have become far more flashy and bold than ever, are not shocking anymore. It doesn't mean they are not interesting and entertaining to audience at all. Why can't audience just appreciates what they see and hear for what it is - appreciating its aesthetics, not just image, but in music as well.  
 
I believe 'shock value" can be part of certain music's creativity, but shouldn't be the sole reason why the music exists. And sometimes when it's poorly done (like those old bad PVs mentioned above), I'd rather they not do it anymore. If you want to do it, do it well. There can be clichés in your PV, but you can do it in an interesting and well-produced way. Like I l said, it doesn't have to be shocking and if you aim for that, more often than not you will fail.
 
Have you ever asked your self as a member of the audience, is crap like shitting on stage and similar stuff what you really want? I mean, any random fool can do that. If you do that, you will only make yourself look like an idiot - nothing else. It doesn't represent any creativity and musicianship. But if that's what you really want, I am sure more entertainers will be happy to do such on stage for you.
 
Of course you can do a lot of things to shock people. Yes, I can be shocked. But you will only be a five-minute fool and quickly ignored by the audience after "wtf". Yes, you probably get the attention you want. I, as a member of music audience will not give you any attention and will keep looking for music with real value to me.

Do you mean music should be shocking for the sake of being shocking? I for one am against this kind of idea. To me, music should be interesting, entertaining and creative. The "shock value" sometimes happens to come with it because it is challenging certain repressive values in a society like someone said. For example, you can't deny that visual kei aesthetics old or new are challenging conservative or gender images in Japan's society, to fulfil certain audience's and musicians' wishes. I know it's not shocking anymore. And it doesn't have to be. Visual kei as well as some of today's pop stars' fashion and styling (look at Kyary Pamyu Pamyu), which have become far more flashy and bold than ever, are not shocking anymore. It doesn't mean they are not interesting and entertaining to audience at all. Why can't audience just appreciates what they see and hear for what it is - appreciating its aesthetics, not just image, but in music as well.  
 
I believe 'shock value" can be part of certain music's creativity, but shouldn't be the sole reason why the music exists. And sometimes when it's poorly done (like those old bad PVs mentioned above), I'd rather they not do it anymore. If you want to do it, do it well. There can be clichés in your PV, but you can do it in an interesting and well-produced way. Like I l said, it doesn't have to be shocking and if you aim for that, more often than not you will fail.
 
Have you ever asked your self as a member of the audience, is crap like shitting on stage and similar stuff what you really want? I mean, any random fool can do that. If you do that, you will only make yourself look like an idiot - nothing else. It doesn't represent any creativity and musicianship. But if that's what you really want, I am sure more entertainers will be happy to do such on stage for you.
 
Of course you can do a lot of things to shock people. Yes, I can be shocked. But you will only be a five-minute fool and quickly ignored by the audience after "wtf". Yes, you probably get the attention you want. I, as a member of music audience will not give you any attention and will keep looking for music with real value to me.

Do you mean music should be shocking for the sake of being shocking? I for one am against this kind of idea. To me, music should be interesting, entertaining and creative. The "shock value" sometimes happens to come with it because it is challenging certain repressive values in a society like someone said. For example, you can't deny that visual kei aesthetics old or new are challenging conservative or gender images in Japan's society, to fulfil certain audience's and musicians' wishes. I know it's not shocking anymore. And it doesn't have to be. Visual kei as well as some of today's pop stars' fashion and styling (look at Kyary Pamyu Pamyu), which have become far more flashy and bold than ever, are not shocking anymore. It doesn't mean they are not interesting and entertaining to audience at all. Why can't audience just appreciates what they see and hear for what it is - appreciating its aesthetics, not just image, but in music as well.  
 
I believe 'shock value" can be part of certain music's creativity, but shouldn't be the sole reason why the music exists. And sometimes when it's poorly done (like those old bad PVs mentioned above), I'd rather they not do it anymore. If you want to do it, do it well. There can be clichés in your PV, but you can do it in an interesting and well-produced way. Like I l said, it doesn't have to be shocking and if you aim for that, more often than not you will fail.
 
Have you ever asked your self as a member of the audience, is crap like shitting on stage and similar stuff what you really want? I mean, any random fool can do that. If you do that, you will only make yourself look like an idiot - nothing else. It doesn't represent any creativity and musicianship. But if that's what you really want, I am sure more entertainers will be happy to do such on stage for you.
 
Of course you can do a lot of things to shock people. Yes, I can be shocked. But you will only be a five-minute fool and quickly ignored by the audience after "wtf". Yes, you probably get the attention you want. I, as a member of music audience will not give you any attention and will keep looking for music with real value to me.

It seems like most of what you're saying, nekkichi, is based on the fact that you hate the band and their music. That doesn't matter, because we could be talking about any band and they would still have a right to speak about their music being illegally downloaded. 
 
I wonder if we would be having the same conversation if you didn't have this particular hatred for the band in question. No one here is forcing you to listen to the music (illegally downloaded or purchased) at gunpoint, so I think it's time to stop talking about the music they make and more about the point of the discussion.

I just wonder sometimes how can the japanese market(not only the music one) be so outdated. Every band out there in the west does album streams, or at least lets you listen to 2 or 3 tracks before the release. With japanese bands you may end up getting only 1:30 minutes of a PV and you will only be able to a full track if you buy it or illegally download it. In some bands it's even worse... Dir en grey only lets you listen to the chorus of the single. And there's also the bands that block their youtube content to countries that aren't japan.
 
The japanese seem to try really hard to make no one listen to their music. I know it's the country where they still use Fax, but pls japan 2014 already

I am not really into classic rock. I am usually a fan of alternative/indie rock types (1990s to 2000s). Don't get me wrong, I don't like those dull Grunge or Nu-Metal bands. lol
 
I am OK with any emotion, happy, sad, etc. as long as I like the music. Most of the J-rock bands I like actually sound similar to the Western alternative/indie rock bands I like. What I like about Japanese rock is that it sometimes has more complex melodies and song structures, and solos that a lot of modern Western alternative/pop rock bands don't bother to try/have. Just because you belong to some sort of pop, it doesn't mean you shouldn't try something a little surprising and complex. J-rock bands has done this better. Of course there are simple J-rock bands, but some of them probably can make up for it with better melodies compared to Western bands. But it will depend on the band.
 
I think I should probably put it this way: I am not a fan of most pop rock bands that do anime openings. Most of them belong to the "simple song" type. But I would rather listen to those anime opening bands than mainstream Western pop rock bands like Nickelback and Green Day if I really had to waste my ears on either, because I absolutely cannot stand the latter while a lot of J-pop rock bands at least sound OK to me. I don't know why. Maybe it's because the Japanese have better melodies and less annoying vocals.

It is just me but I can't stand BORN no matter they are heavy or not. This is not the problem of being heavy or not. They are just shitty. Being on PSC probably prevents them from disbanding. Lucky for them.

I think Zess means that a lot of bands sound and look similar to each other. That's truth. But it is also truth that a lot of bands within a scene or movement in pop/rock music history had similar sound. That's not limited to Japan actually. It happens a lot in the West. I wouldn't say that vk itself is conformist. Nowadays, it's all about who can market itself best (that's probably the "core" you talked about). Having a similar sound or look to someone successful is one of the ways of trying to market itself. If that's viewed not successful, some people will try something different. I think some people are thinking too deep about visual kei while it's actually not that much. It's similar to the (late night) anime and otaku subculture, with obvious escapism element for the audience. But at the same time that doesn't mean there aren't art, creativity and expression elements within these subcultures. These elements are mixed.

I think Zess means that a lot of bands sound and look similar to each other. That's truth. But it is also truth that a lot of bands within a scene or movement in pop/rock music history had similar sound. That's not limited to Japan actually. It happens a lot in the West. I wouldn't say that vk itself is conformist. Nowadays, it's all about who can market itself best (that's probably the "core" you talked about). Having a similar sound or look to someone successful is one of the ways of trying to market itself. If that's viewed not successful, some people will try something different. I think some people are thinking too deep about visual kei while it's actually not that much. It's similar to the (late night) anime and otaku subculture, with obvious escapism element for the audience. But at the same time that doesn't mean there aren't art, creativity and expression elements within these subcultures. These elements are mixed.

Did any band ever count down for disbandment?

Tokyo Jihen had a few interesting and highly entertaining PVs. The 女の子は誰でも one is inspired by old musicals. The ハンサム過ぎて PV looks like a 1950s/1960s black and white movie. The 今夜はから騒ぎ PV reminds you of China in the early 20th century. All of them have gorgeous and well-designed costumes and settings.

That's true. Artists don't get much from CD sales. When the CD is imported since a lot of us like Japanese music, a lot of what you pay goes into shipping and stuff.
 
As to live gigs, you are paying for your one time enjoyment of the show. Your money is exchanged for their work of playing the music. It's fair trade unless you think the ticket price is not worth it. Of course, people can stop liking certain music for various reasons. If you are not happy with how the artists spend the money they earn, or if you don't like the music they make anymore, you will just stop paying for songs and gig tickets. No matter whatever you have paid for in the past, you have enjoyed the benefit so I think it was worth it.

I don't care for both labels. Each of them probably only has one or two artists I like. Tastes differ. I am sure the managing policies for different bands differ too. You don't like something but that doesn't mean it's not good in some other fans' eyes. It still attracts fans and that's what matters to the company.
 
I am not surprised that PSC acts like some idol agency or something and doesn't allow bands to reveal their relationships. It's reasonable for Japanese music/entertainment industries. Not allowing bands to have relationships? I don't think so. Bands from other labels also don't tend to reveal their relationships. Not being relevant or their partners not being public figures is a very good excuse.
 
I am actually curious about the Kra story. Where did you get that information? If it wasn't from the band, I doubt whether it's reliable. Even if the band was indeed forced to record that in one day, isn't it strange that they are allowed to broadcast this kind of negative stuff about their company?

I love Hiro's(Nocturnal Bloodlust) harsh vocals,to me,they're the best!
 
Still can't figure out how to do high pitched screams without hurting my throat a little ._.
Any tips?

I'm not the type who would dismiss an artist entirely on the attitude of its fanbase, but on average it's safe to say the fanbase is often an indicator of the quality of the band itself. Shit attracts shit, after all.

I don't find that surprising at all. It has nothing to do with feminine aesthetics in vk. And no, most vk fans in Japan don't think like you do, sorry. They prefer guys and guys singing. There's nothing wrong with yours or their preference. It's just how the scene works.
 
Usually almost 100% of a vk band's fanbase is female (and mostly very young) unless the band becomes very big like L'Arc-en-Ciel. You can argue that it's the norm in this world that most of the rock band members are male. But that is not the sole reason why visual kei band members are mostly male. In Japan's context, there are other reasons. Most Western rock band members are male too but they have a lot of or even mostly male fans from the beginning. Sometimes, Western rock bands with female members will attract more female fans. It's the opposite in Japan, especially within the vk scene. I believe it's due to a cultural difference even if I am talking about subcultures.
 
It makes more sense if the majority of the band members are male since their audience is female. The guys might look pretty and feminine but that's only from Western culture's perspective. From the Japanese female perspective, they are still men, attractive, desirable or even "ideal" men (at least after makeup and styling have been done). I am sure Japanese female fans don't consider them feminine unless they are onnagata, which is the minority (e.g. Hizaki) and only serves as something novel and different among other guys. You need to keep in mind the cultural difference. It's like when you show today's anime (those made after the 2000s, regardless of the genre or demographic) to a Western person who's not familiar with anime, they will probably think most of the anime guys look like girls, while anime audiences in Japan don't ever think they look like girls.
 
I believe that vk or J-rock bands with female members, especially a female vocalist, often attract more male fans. I don't claim that they use the female members to delibrately attract male fans. But they definitely don't have the female members to attract female fans (of course if female fans like them too, that's all good). "Females who dress like guys who look like girls" are nothing new in Japan. Since I talked about the "ideal" men (i.e. men looking like girls from Western perspective), the Takarazuka Revue, with an all female fanbase, has been doing this for decades. Some visual kei female members probably take inspiration from that when they want to be liked by female fans. So this is just a cultural thing in Japan that the West doesn't have. To some audience, it doesn't matter which gender is playing this role at all. They just want the show.

I don't find that surprising at all. It has nothing to do with feminine aesthetics in vk. And no, most vk fans in Japan don't think like you do, sorry. They prefer guys and guys singing. There's nothing wrong with yours or their preference. It's just how the scene works.
 
Usually almost 100% of a vk band's fanbase is female (and mostly very young) unless the band becomes very big like L'Arc-en-Ciel. You can argue that it's the norm in this world that most of the rock band members are male. But that is not the sole reason why visual kei band members are mostly male. In Japan's context, there are other reasons. Most Western rock band members are male too but they have a lot of or even mostly male fans from the beginning. Sometimes, Western rock bands with female members will attract more female fans. It's the opposite in Japan, especially within the vk scene. I believe it's due to a cultural difference even if I am talking about subcultures.
 
It makes more sense if the majority of the band members are male since their audience is female. The guys might look pretty and feminine but that's only from Western culture's perspective. From the Japanese female perspective, they are still men, attractive, desirable or even "ideal" men (at least after makeup and styling have been done). I am sure Japanese female fans don't consider them feminine unless they are onnagata, which is the minority (e.g. Hizaki) and only serves as something novel and different among other guys. You need to keep in mind the cultural difference. It's like when you show today's anime (those made after the 2000s, regardless of the genre or demographic) to a Western person who's not familiar with anime, they will probably think most of the anime guys look like girls, while anime audiences in Japan don't ever think they look like girls.
 
I believe that vk or J-rock bands with female members, especially a female vocalist, often attract more male fans. I don't claim that they use the female members to delibrately attract male fans. But they definitely don't have the female members to attract female fans (of course if female fans like them too, that's all good). "Females who dress like guys who look like girls" are nothing new in Japan. Since I talked about the "ideal" men (i.e. men looking like girls from Western perspective), the Takarazuka Revue, with an all female fanbase, has been doing this for decades. Some visual kei female members probably take inspiration from that when they want to be liked by female fans. So this is just a cultural thing in Japan that the West doesn't have. To some audience, it doesn't matter which gender is playing this role at all. They just want the show.

When I first heard Origin of Symmetry by Muse in 2001/02, I wondered whether some of the melodies, which were not often found in Western rock, had been inspired by J-rock. I wasn't quite sure since I wasn't really a huge fan of J-rock back then. Wherever they got their inspirations from, Muse have made a few albums with genuinely good music. And they wrote good lyrics in their own language. Isn't it a good enough example for younger bands to follow?
 
Here is an interesting discussion on the difference between J-music and Western music (especially rock) on AnimeSuki forum: http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=97468 I tend to agree with most of what those people said on that topic.
 
Seriously, those whatever-kei wannabe bands should stop. I don't care whether they actually get signed to a label or not. They should stop trying to be cheap knock-offs of all the shitty generic nu-metal/fake metal Visual Kei bands. But shitty generic nu-metal/fake metal VK bands seem to be the most popular type among Western fans, especially young ones. That's why they all form those whatever-kei wannabe bands. Cheap VK image knock-off is even worse than just music. And what's with all those cheesy fake Japanese band names? Maybe they start a band to pick up the VK fangirls. Maybe they are successful at that. lol
 
Do they realize that there is a lot of good Japanese music existing outside of all the generic nu-metal/fake metal/metalcore J-rock bands and the Visual Kei scene? I do think it's high time that Western pop/rock learnt from J-music, became more experimental and put more effort on the instrumental and melodies like J-musicians, instead of being boring, simple and confined to conventions like a lot of mainstream rock bands. Don't forget that rock music originated and once flourished in the West. You could become an "it" band like the Strokes were in 2001 and why not? I am not saying the Strokes were experimental but bands like that were "new" and refreshing back then. It's 2013 now and bands certainly know they shouldn't do the same things as bands in 2001 did.