relentless

You missed my point when I discussed a distinction between Popular and Art music (I wasn't talking about the "Art of popular music", whatever that means). The point was to demonstrate the high appreciative standard in Art music which deems music as a "privilege" does not necessarily hold up in a lot of Popular music -- especially when the end goal is marketability (especially with image in Nocturnal Bloodlust's case). If someone is trying to market something to you, is it truly a privilege to listen to when it's being thrown in your face? I also said nothing about how NB "don't have the market". I believe there you are referencing the point I just reiterated which was the band pushed their new look for the sake of marketability (when previously as those more knowledgable on the band have said in this thread, their previous look wasn't doing anything for them). And we're not necessarily arguing potential (I'm not at least). If you were to ask me about their potential, I would say they're a terrible, derivative band that has next to no potential for staying around much longer. But that's just my opinion on their music, not an assessment on their financial dealings. So while others may have shared an opinion on the band, I'm shying away from that kind of argument because it has too great of a chance of devolving into subjective opinions without any care for reason. And you'll need to link me to where they have announced they are playing in larger venues, because I took all of the shows they have lined up on their website and went through them by capacity, all totaling to about 600-700 each. Nowhere is there any mention of anything to indicate otherwise, please provide a link if you can. There is one thing that struck me, and what I find to be the focal point of your narrow interpretation of this situation: "They're losing in the international market not because the interest isn't there, but because it's easier and free to just illegally download." At first glance this is blatantly incorrect. The reason why it's not entirely incorrect when in consideration of the whole is because there are people that will just download an album because it's free. There are those that can't be bothered to pay anything, and that's fine. But how many of those are even fans to begin with? How many are potential fans that want to hear the music first? How many are people who just want to rag on the band by downloading the album and shitting on it afterwards? There are many groups that need to be considered because it's not a black and white issue of "they're losing the international market because it's easier and free to illegally download". 1. They're NOT losing the international market because they're not even IN THE INTERNATIONAL MARKET. Their presence is literally unknown to everyone but a minority of those that listen to and follow Visual Kei. How can you be losing a market that you have LITERALLY 0 presence in? You can't, because they were never there to begin with. This is a failing of the band. If they're not marketed, how am I to know I can purchase their music in the US, or Europe? If you disagree, show me sales outside of Japan that indicate otherwise. You can't argue that NB are losing sales and international market potential due to downloads, because to argue such you have to be ready to prove it with statistics. At that point you can argue that you THINK they MIGHT be losing potential; but due to the complex buying habits of individual persons, I would disagree with you. As mentioned above, how many of those downloads are from people that are curious and want to see if they like the music? how many are from people who want to give the band another chance and see if they're any good? how many are from people who genuinely like the band and want their new release for free? You don't know these things, and those are but 3 of the endless factors that take place when someone purchases an album. I can only speak off of personal experience (and others can attest to this as well, I'm sure); but as others have said, many of those downloads could very well be of those that would not even buy their music in the first place, and perhaps don't even like the band. BUT, those downloads could also come from people who are curious about the music, and intend on paying for their goods if they like the band. I could easily inflate my argument to assume that those people (those that gain interest in the band, download, like them, and then begin supporting them) are the very refutation of your point that downloads are killing their market potential; but even I know that's not the whole picture. When I mentioned personal experience, I am referencing my large (and growing) collection of Classical that I have bought (and torrented). I recently picked up Kleiber's infamous recording of Wagner's Tristan und Isolde. I downloaded it first though, listened a few times, then purchased a physical copy. Why did I do this? Carlos Kleiber is dead along with many of the musicians that took part in that recording. They won't receive the money, so by logic I can argue I don't NEED to pay; but I did to show my furthering support (and Wagner Operas do not come cheap) of the music. In fact, most purchases have come this way where I wanted to listen to a recording before making a decision. I'm not saying that this is what everyone in the world that torrents does; but this is a group you have neglected in your assessment, and which I guarantee makes up a large portion of this community from the amount that have indicated this notion in the past. In regards to ("but I think your reasoning is flawed in a business perspective. Because it obviously does affect the market enough for the band to actually say something about it,") - you can't argue this because you don't truly know. What if their record label is acting through them by proxy? Those more skeptical would indicate such, especially when you take into account the variety of bands that speak out about piracy, and in which in many of those cases, financial dealings have nothing to do with it. tl;dr: There are too many factors that are in place for you to make the argument that illegal downloads are responsible for the band's lack of market hold abroad. As I have indicated, that cannot be the case when 1. they don't have the presence in the international market that you think they do. 2. You are assuming an outdated argument that illegally downloading = huge impact to the band when in many cases (i.e. even big bands like Metallica) they don't see much, if anything, from CD profits (to make this argument you'd need to know how much NB make from record sales vs. merch and ticket sales). and 3. you are failing to take into account the complex buying habits of individuals. If you can address points 1-3, and provide statistics as support for the claims on losing market potential, etc., then I will be thoroughly persuaded and will be driven to find out more about this issue. Until then, I still say you need to broaden your understanding seeing as how with points made above, it is far more complex than the black-and-white issue you're trying to draw it into. Finally, please link me to your 60 page thesis if you can, I'd love to read it.

Two things I'd like to mention in regards to this post: 1. In regards to your comment ("but to be fair, fans have been able to find rare and hard-to-find stuff from obscure bands for years prior to MP3s and filesharing") -- the keyword here is "been able to find rare and hard-to-find stuff", which has to do with scarce product. There simply weren't many ways to find out about these VK bands, and the goods available were even more scarce than the resources of finding out about them. Tell me, in those days when people found these tapes did any of the bigger name VK bands: 1. Tour the States (or Europe) because of these second-hand sales? and 2. Did these bands profit from said second-hand purchases? The answer to both is no. Yes, people "found a way" to get music; but not only was this a fractional minority, it was one that had next to 0 impact on those bands at that time. Also note that the world has vastly changed since this time and those that actually went out looking for these tapes back in the "80's and 90's" were the select few that were passionate enough about the music to want to look in length for the music. Your average consumer (the ones that ultimately drive a majority of the sales) were not prepared to do this. 2. In regards to your comment ("most bands are stunned when they realize how popular they are abroad, because they just don't know. They actually have no idea how many fans they have abroad") - this is incredibly misleading because you're assuming a level of popularity that may or may not be there. Judging from venue size played in Japan by NB (650-700 person venues) not only is this ridiculous projection; but it could be an incredibly optimistic one as well. You have constantly mentioned that you are specifically talking about VK whenever someone brings up Western bands, so let's stick with Nocturnal Bloodlust that play in small clubs. Do you think that Nocturnal Bloodlust have a larger fanbase outside of Japan? Compare their fanbase with any 1 country (if you can) and let me know what you find. Could Nocturnal Bloodlust do a headlining tour of the US? The answer is no. This hits on a greater point that I have been keeping note of. Any excuse can be presented to try and explain Piracy and its impact on Nocturnal Bloodlust; but based off of observation, that should be the last of their worries. Yes, music is TECHNICALLY a privilege. Since a family member of yours (Mother I believe? Sister? I forget, sorry) performs in Opera, I'm sure you could relate to the concept that music is art that we have the privilege to appreciate on higher levels (as Classical music is the very essence of this notion); but in regards to Pop music, this becomes less so when the primary drive for these bands (and yes, lesser bands such as Nocturnal Bloodlust as well) is marketability. For example: Nocturnal Bloodlust, seeking to make changes to their lack of popularity, didn't change the music they're writing; but instead changed their image....for marketability. Did piracy make Nocturnal Bloodlust change their image? No. Their music and lack of interest in regards to their music did -- for marketability. Now, is this a failing of the consumer, or band? Is the consumer responsible for Nocturnal Bloodlust playing 600 person club shows, or is this the band's fault? It's self evident when you consider the reasoning above that piracy is not the main reason; but a lack of interest in the overall product. As I'm sure you know in the appreciation of Opera, if the role of The Queen of the Night in Mozart's Die Zauberflöte can not perform the demanding falsettos required, people will not attend the performances due to the poor performance of the singer. This is the same with Pop (Popular) music: If people do not have any interest in a band, they will not attend their concerts, and thus the band will be playing to fewer and fewer people (in Popular music this can end a band/group/solo artist). In sum: Due to your misleading "facts" and narrow interpretations, you are not seeing the entire picture here. Sure piracy has SOME impact on the archaic model of record labels (due to the very design of the old ways clashing with the new); but it can not be cited as the reason for a band's failings, especially when they have 99 other problems to worry about.

Agreed. The Beatles are the very refutation of "too fast". They released an album every year (in some cases, 2 releases in the same year), and their music is some of the best in Pop.

First, I've always found it fascinating how so many different bands can have a different stance on this issue. You'd think that in the music industry, every band would speak out against piracy; but that is nowhere near the case. There are bands (often Japanese bands) that go on about how downloading music is ruining their lives; but then there are others that have a "fuck it" mentality. I can't even count the amount of times I've been to a show where the vocalist has said "Buy our new album, pirate it, I don't care, just listen to it". Why is this? It could be any amount of factors including personal views, record label pressure, and anything else that I can't think of at the top of my head. The issue, which many have touched on here, is the archaic model of signing bands to contracts, releasing albums, and basing sales performance on the longevity of the band. This is a model that has been going all the way back to the 50's and 60's -- why are we still employing a model that is ~60 years old, in a world that is vastly different from that time? Sure, the business model of these big record labels worked when availability was scarce; but today we have access to so much information at the click of a button, that the old model becomes even more irrelevant. As with all businesses, they must adapt or fail. As it stands right now, the music industry is intent on fighting a fight that can not be won. I sure as hell don't have the answers; but all I know is that the old way of doing things needs to be revised / completely overhauled to suit an age where not only are bands a dime-a-dozen; but their access and interaction with the consumer is far greater than it has ever been, thus direct distribution becomes an attractive method instead of dealing with binding contracts from record labels. Or, Nocturnal Bloodlust could just stop making bad music and get people to want to buy their music / attend their shows. But to them, it's the world's problem, not theirs.

I'm not saying that their music is good or bad; but agreeing with you on its general simplicity.

How to Write a Dir en grey Song: 1. 4/4 time 2. Diminished scale And I agree about Shinya. He's a fine rock drummer; but once he starts delving into faster tempi we get the same blast beats over and over again. Even run-of-the-mill death metal bands produce better drum work than Dir en grey. And in regards to sukekiyo vs. Dir en grey: I feel as though that's a very vocal minority, and a very childish one (regardless of if the group in question really really loves Dir en grey, or really really hates them). On either side it's as if they are trying really hard to validate their dislike/like for the band. Though, if any of them could articulate their thoughts outside of "sucks" or "is the best band ever", the discussions would be somewhat productive and interesting.

IMMORTALIS was something that I was very interested in listening to. At the end I would consider it an enjoyable experience, and a very nice break from what Dir en grey has been releasing as of late. Though largely straight forward, there are some very interesting compositional elements throughout the album that bears a quality you don't see in Dir en grey. In Dir en grey you have Die and Kaoru playing the same riff for 4 measures in every song they've ever done -- here, there is actual melodic development with the guitar lines as they highlight the chord progressions, and supplement them, with extended phrasing. The music, and how its presented, is far superior to anything Dir en grey has done lately. Kyo also puts on a good performance throughout the album; but the problems occur when he dives into the same bag of tricks that he always resorts to, and does it at a higher volume. This is undoubtedly HIS solo project as the music (though enjoyable) acts as the back drop to the display that Kyo puts on. This is good and bad as it highlights his strengths as a vocalist; but it also shows his lack of concern for form. On one hand you have some powerful vocal melodies; but on the other you have extended periods where Kyo is just rambling with no defined melody -- just making noise for the point of making noise. Then there's also his high pitched screams which arrive at the worst times, and various missed opportunities of improving a song by either removing the vocals, or inserting them in differing situations. This was an enjoyable listen and should be highlighted for the other member's contributions, as Kyo's antics often overshadow them. 7/10

How does this distinguish them between a band like Ghost? Both of them are driven by their image yet Ghost seems to have more "metal cred" than Babymetal. In both cases it is assumed that the band (the girls in Babymetal and to a lesser extent, the Nameless Ghouls in Ghost) doesn't write the music, instead it is others that are doing so. I honestly don't see much difference between the presentation of both bands outside of the fact that Babymetal is just a bit more ridiculous (and more ham-fisted when it comes to the presentation), and that is in consideration of a band whose frontman dresses like this: http://aestheticmag.files.wordpress.com/2013/04/ghost-bc-thomas-hawk.jpg?w=750

It's incredibly underwhelming except for Kyo's delivery. Kyo's vocals have not sounded this good in a while, perhaps a change in atmosphere warranted such a change? This is evidently Kyo's solo project with the music acting as a back drop to his vocals; but even the accompanying music is far more enjoyable to listen to than most recent releases.

GALLOWS - a lazy attempt at an album lynch. has never been a band that I would call myself a fan of; but like 12012 and Sadie, I enjoy keeping track of their sound to see where they can go next, regardless of the quality. Here, lynch. doesn't necessarily disappoint because my expectations were already so low that they were affirmed. With the same song structure for each song, and many being so eerily similar that breakdowns show up in the exact places that you expect them to, I sat bored hoping for what the next track would bring. This is as run-of-the-mill VK as it gets (at least the "heavier" sound which bands like Girugamesh, gazettE, Sadie, and 12012 have been doing) drawing upon 5 year old musical conventions to breathe new life into the music. The problem with derivative Art, is that when it draws upon influences it doesn't make them their own, it simply borrows from older examples to piece together a mess that is as bad in terms of composition as it is production-wise. There is a strange cultural lag between music trends in the West and in Japan. Hair metal and Glam was adopted long after its popularity peaked in the West, Straight Edge Hardcore bands began showing up years after the trend was set in the US, and now "Metalcore" is receiving its revival in Japan with a seemingly endless amount of shit being passed through. EDIT: There was one part I liked. Literally, one part in the whole album: the last track where in the chorus where it sounds like a chord used outside of the original key is used. This is nothing spectacular as one learns key changes in the first month of theory; but utilizing it in an interesting way was a good change of pace. This album is lazy. This album is bad. And most of all, this album is a disgrace. Does this deserve a rating? No; but if one were to be given, it would simply be 1/10

This should only be in consideration of Pop (Popular) Music, as Art Music does not revolve around commercial sales to progress. The only thing I have a problem with is as Bear described, people who pass work off as their own; but have been lying the entire time (a Japanese Composer recently confessed to doing this). My preference is for one person (Composer) or a band to write their own material; but if they need to use ghost writers it should be explicitly stated.

Lazy writing is the best way for me to describe DEVIL. It's nothing different than what we've been hearing from them and bands with a similar sound. Toss in a hardcore breakdown (and judging from the previews there's going to be quite a few more) and you have the same gimmick that has been running its course in VK for the past 4 years. The song GALLOWS sounds promising; but the rest sounds like everything else they've released before, just repackaged.

Kyo smiling isn't really that rare. All across the EU and NA tours he is constantly seen grinning after the shows, and even in some cases with a big smile on his face.

I honestly don't mind that they're doing a Gauze tour; but at the same time I don't want their past to be a crutch for their music now. I would have 0 interest and respect for this band if they resorted to pure fanservice and stopped progressing musically. As it stands though, a Gauze tour could be good for them. It'll carry a different atmosphere that will take the focus away from their new material.

The DVD looks well done; but I have a feeling we're going to get long segments of the band doing nothing while sitting around waiting for a replacement bus for their tour. Nothing looks eventful in any of the previews.

It was around an hour. I was surprised because they were just a supporting act for Between the Buried and Me; but their set was comparable to BTBAM.

Just one song if I remember correctly. They played Unrequited to close the show out.

@ Original Saku: Music is not JUST all about enjoyment. To simplify music as "why can't we just all enjoy it?" is doing a disservice to music when there are understandings and schools of thought rooted in music that are worth exploring. There's nothing wrong with just enjoying a certain kind of music and that is all; but to others there is a great enjoyment in not only listening to the music; but UNDERSTANDING it as well. Music appreciation (vs. enjoyment) tends to fall under this category.

It's honestly very difficult to say. As a whole, Visual Kei falls under this middle category beween Classical and something like Rock or Metal. Classical is NOT a genre (despite efforts to define it as such), where as Rock and Metal are. On one hand, Visual Kei operates as a movement of music (similar to Classical); but without the richness of variation and actual musical development. On the other, most bands fall under the general term "Hard Rock"; but this can not be attributed to EVERY band. Even then, when we try to divide Visual Kei into sub genres, it becomes nearly impossible because those "subgenres" tend to be in regards to how they dress and not the music they're making. Genre is something very general so yes, I can tell the genre of most bands; but once you get into the specifics of subgenres then it would prove a little difficult in some places. And I will never like a band based on their look. In some cases (Ghost) it adds to my enjoyment; but in those cases the outfits actually serve a purpose. The looks never matter to me. If a band can write good music, then I will always give them a listen. I generally discover music. If I hear something I like, I will search for similar artists. No. I'm only remotely bothered when those labels hinder the discussion of music. If someone talks about Classical as a "genre" (something that has nothing to do with Classical), then the distinction has to be made to further discuss it in detail. BONUS: No.

The Deafheaven and Between The Buried and Me show was awesome. Deafheaven is far better live than on CD, that's for sure.

That's part of a description posted on Dir en grey's Facebook. It feels like they take this same paragraph, and modify it to add at the end of any promotion regarding the band (at least their recent Tour DVD's). It makes the DVD sound like an exercise in Philosophy more than a Tour DVD.

It's going to be a great year for tours as well: I'm seeing Between the Buried and me with Deafheaven and Intronaut in a week, then The Ocean with Scale the Summit next month. And yeah. Sunbather had a few weaknesses that was really in terms of production. The album was released through Deathwish, a hardcore label notorious for its bare sound and mediocre production. The Carrier: Deathwish mostly specializes in offshoots of Hardcore; but what's a constant is that typical punk rock production that's bare and basic in terms of its mixing. It's hard to distinguish between guitar parts, especially with the bass barely audible amongst the wall of noise. Sunbather, I feel, suffered in the same vein but this time it had to do with vocals. The vocals blend into the rest of the music, and that's the problem. The screams (without much variation) remain constantly in the background as if it was done in an empty room. There's even a slight echo to the vocals in some tracks. Some people can say things like "well that's what black metal inspired music sounds like"; but that doesn't excuse that the album was released under a label with similarly poorly produced records. I guess it could be preference as to how you want music to sound; but when the vocals are presented as practically an after thought, it bothers me a little.

I would have enjoyed Sunbather a lot more if the production wasn't so "muddy". They seem like a band that would probably be better to see live anyway.

The Prelude/Vorspiel to Wagner's Parsifal

Attack on Titan, and so far I hate it.