Ikna

I like Vidoll more. Actually I don't really feel either of them are excellent, because Vidoll's early stuff was just fine (for me), but after VID they started to become less interesting. But their first minis really kicked. But you know, I am very biased about newer VK anyway. Phantasmagoria are great, but not that great. They could have become excellent for my taste if they had released more. After all their entire discography are just a hand full of songs which have been re-released dozen of times. So my choice are Vidoll, as they had a much bigger disco and more songs for me to enjoy.

Ugh, difficult (because I am not good at describing in English), but let's try: I like off key vocals, when they are used well and are transformed into a strenght, which makes a good contrast to otherwise professional sounding vocalists. I like my music raw, maybe low-budget (but still listenable and enjoyable). Cheesy synths, drumcomputers, Magix music maker VST sound effects and keyboard tunes are a plus. Monotone recitation or monologues as if the singer is struggling with his own self or talking to their other person living in their mind (or hiding in their shadows) are great. Maniacal laughter, moaning (up to the point it is just ridiculous and you can't tell if their moan derives from symbolizing pain or sexual pleasure) too. I generally have a thing for singers who express themselves with all kinds of varied methods, especially with screaming, whispering, laughing or weeping. The more dramatical, the better! Also gloomy tunes, dark brooding basslines, vibrating in the air and being torn by the sounds of scything guitar tones. I love flanging guitars, especially when combined with hall and other effects. Wall of sounds, ethereal soundscapes and calming, but still somehow unnerving and cold melodies are my faves too. I really enjoy it when the dark, misty bass lines fuse with the guitars in a way that i get the feeling a stream of cold light is touching my skin and I start to shiver. I also often judge a music wheter or not it can give me either goosebumps or the wish to move my body to the music. It's really delightful when a song reaches a part or climax and your feeling a strange, but great wave flowing through your body. A bit scary, but scary is always good. But I also enjoy heavier, fast tempo songs. I feel certain types of Visual kei are a nice fusion of those cold, yet melodic and ethereal guitar lines and the rather fast, raw and offensive sounds. But my preferences aren't necessarily limited to VK or Jrock, I really enjoy my non-japanese music being athmospheric, cold, mysterious and gloomy too. Catchy up-beat synths to dance to are nice as well. All in all it's dependent on my mood. Sometimes I listen mainly to dark, sobbing tunes, other days I want to be cheered up by light and dancey music. And then there are days where I need to vent by synchronizing my thoughts and feelings with those tormented screams of the singers. I don't want to comment much about looks, as I feel this would belong to it's own topic and isn't necessarily linked with the description of music.

That's a rather unusual cooperation. (as the bands are nothing alike) Cell's new look is requiring getting used to (but still better than just black and face paint). Well, let's see how the songs turn out.

Lol, this. I wonder if this band will turn out to be another homage group too. And if, who will they take "inspiration" from? But hey, good to see that MadWinK. are signing another group.

Also another thread where we can discuss this whole "old VK is better/worse" thing (Gaz posted a link to another thread) The title of this thread is definitely misleading a bit. Also everyone else has said, what's to say and mentioned the shift in interests, copyright and so on. I want to add a bit of my perspective, mainly from my subjective experience with the Austrian and German fanbase, which is mostly based on real life experiences (with my rather tiny and small local VK fanbase) and what i have witnessed on several national and German Forums, Boards and Websites. I came in contact with VK in 2003 and 2004. I have heard of it even earlier in Anime Magazines, but didn't pay any attention to it. Back at this time it was difficult to get information on VK bands. Only if you have been to Japan yourself you would have come into contact with more obscure indies bands. The groups that were known over here were all the big groups, the ones signed to major labels or which were pretty popular and well established: Dir en grey, Malice Mizer, Buck-Tick, Luna Sea, Pierrot, L'arc~en~Ciel, Moi dix Mois and Gackt (technically not VK, but he was in Malice and so appealed to the european fans). My first real experience with VK was, when the distributor Gan-Shin was founded and started to release some VK CDs here. Mind you, they were still hard to get, at least in Austria. Only one store carried Dir en grey and Moi dix Mois' albums and so I bought them. The only reason why I knew about these bands was because of Manga magazines. I am sure there were several people in the early 00s who came to VK not through the Anime "Scene" but I'll say for the majority of the fanbase at this time this was the entrance. Let's say 90% of the German fanbase at least was compromised of Manga reading Weaboos, who threw around japanese words in their German sentences, because it was so cool and so on. VK appealed to them, because they already lived in a fantasy world and bubble, where everything is "kawaii" and where Japan was the garden Eden of the Earth, filled with hot crossdressing men. The Anime fandom was very big at the time, as we were still in the midst of the Anime and Manga boom, which started somewhere in the mid to late 90s. Everything japanese was considered "fresh", "new" and "exotic". Now more then 10 years have passed and surely the world isn't the same. Nowadays everything is much more accessible. You don't need to spend shitton of money and habe patience to be able to get your hands on a new CD of your favourite VK band. You can buy their CD now easily in Online Stores or just download them. The Anime and Manga boom is over too. Being a Weaboo was always frowned upon, but today it seems to have become an even heavier stigma. In the 00s young teens still could go away trying to appear unique and cool by dressing up as self proclaimed "Visus" (yeah, they really saw Visual kei as some kind of subculture…) and shout "people who criticize me just don't understand it!". But if you do this today, then you are considered highly immature, dumb and annoying. Of course most of those "Visus" grew out of it (and very fast). Almost no one of these people I knew (and have even seen in real life) sticked to it. Most of them moved on and became "normal". Others entered other subcultures in the course of the 00s (such as Scene and recently Hipster). A big majority of them don't even want to remember their old self, when they cosplayed as Kyo or Ruki daily (even to school) and probaböy washed their hair only once every 8 days (I am not joking. Many Visus' outfits and body hygiene were bad). I have to say that the current and modern fanbase isn't nearly as crazy as the old one. The cosplays and outfits have gotten better and I feel the amount of delusional fans has started to decrease. So simply put: because it was new and because the Anime/Manga community offered a quick and well guided portal to it, VK was very popular here between 2004 and 2008. It was still fresh and the many japanese oriented fansites and boards were often the only information sources – hence there was also a bit more of a sense of community. Many places were similiar in activity and interest as MH is now. People regulary chatted about what band X is doing, even if the topics were often arbitrary. When I look into the same forums today, there is almost no activity left. That surely gives you the impression as if the VK fan scene would be dead. But MH actually disproves it. I'd say that since VK has become "normalized" and doesn't seem so new and exotic anymore (and since many people have stopped paying attention to it), the scene has become a lot smaller. It's true however (but that's more for the new vs old VK thread) that many people left the scene, because the music has changed and they don't pay any attention to newer releases. I am sure some of them still enjoy the old music they have come to like, but they don't care about any new releases or bands. I myself had stopped listening to VK between 2006 and 2007 (which was a rather short pause anyway). VK lost some fans, as it started to become different, but as you can see it also gained new ones. I guess we could discuss this as some kind of generational conflict (as many of the new fans are in the age we old ones were when we first discovered VK, but yet grew up with other music and have different tastes) in the other thread. Also finally: are music videos really that important anymore? I have the feeling that it's not only limited to VK, but the overall music scene. Music videos don't seem to have the same value as they did maybe 10 or 20 years ago, when MVs were broadcasted on MTV (when it was still mainly a music TV channel) and MVs were often produced with high budget. My mom used to own Michael Jackson's Thriller music video on VHS and it was the extended long edition with Making of. The VHS was probably around 2 or 3 hours. It was expensive, but she loved it and watched it many times. How often do we modern consumers watch a MV? Would we buy a MV with making of for 20-30€? I don't think so. Many people have stated they watch PVs and MVs one time on youtube and never again. We live in a world, where everything has started to become fast lived and is consumed like Junk Food. This is logical, because the WWW offers so much and in masses at a few clicks. Our consuming behaviour isn't the same, so I guess the aproach to MVs and PVs has changed drastically. I know a band which personally would like to make MVs for their music, but they don't do it, because they know people would watch them one time and it would be more expensive and profitable. And before they are forced to do a 0815 cheap low budget one they rather produce none.

Das klingt echt beschissen :/ Bahnhöfe sollten echt einen Raum oder Platz einrichten, der beheizt ist und wo Passagiere übernahcten können, für den Fall, dass der Zug sich verspätet. Übrigens zum Thema Konzerte: welche Bands würdet ihr gerne im deutschen Raum sein (hauptsächlich Bands, die noch nicht da waren)? Muss zugeben, dass ich bisher nie auf einem VK Konzert war, weil die meistens in Deutschland sind (ich glaube D waren vor drei jahren mal in Wien… habe ich leider verpasst :/). Ich würde ja gerne AvelCain, Grieva, emmurée oder Cell sehen. Wenn die nach Deutschland kämen würde ich es sogar in Erwägung ziehen, für ein Konzert Österreich zu verlassen. Vermutlich alleine, denn niemand den ich kenne, hört japanische Bands .___.

Basically any demo tape or demo CD by obscure indie VK bands (especially if they are from the late 90s-early 00s). Though sometimes the bad recording quality can add some charme to the music. And I forgive bad quality when the music is on tape, because in most cases tapes are a low budget medium and you will rarely get a super polished and great sound quality on them. I am judging more harshly if the band has bad recording quality on a CD, especially if they have the budget and maybe even signed to a large (or major) label.

Aber du warst wenigstens nicht alleine am Bahnhof, Champ (zumindest beim ersten Mal). Zu zweit ist sicher alles mögliche ertträglicher. Wie gesagt, ich bin scheu und ängstlich. ;__; Aber wie gesagt, mir fehlt einfach die Reiseerfahrung. Wenn ich öfters irgendwo hin fahren oder fliegen würde, dann würde sich das sicher ändern, denn man gewöhnt sich dann ja langsam daran.

I've been listening to them more lately. At the beginning I couldn't stand Karma's voice either, but it started to grow on me. His voice sure has some similarity with Yuuki's, but Karma's singing style is still very different. I wouldn't call the band old school though, as they remind me more of the typical 2002 upwards Nagoya kei stuff. Except we tag everything from before 2007 as old school now. 2004-2006 was the time I was getting into VK, so AvelCain's sound is pretty familiar for me and I really like it. (I blame the Nostalgia factor) They find a good balance between heavyness, aggressiveness, melody and gloom. I tend to like their fucked up crazy and chaotic songs, i really enjoy when Karma's blabbering perverse things, laughs and screams. You know already, I am the kind of person who likes the batshit insane side of VK. So their band concept is pretty appealing too. It made me laugh however, when some people on tumblr shit their pants because Karma sings about slitting his wrists. Sure, he does some questionable stuff (such as cutting his wrists and showing pics online), but well… I guess some other artists perfomances must be the apocalypse (Throbbing gristle, anyone?). So yeah, a pretty fine and interesting band.

Wow. That's really entertaining. I wonder if Kisaki would have ever thought a bunch of gaijins would figure that out. Or maybe there are some japanese people who know that it's plagiarism and Kisaki made just shit up, but don't care enough to speak with him about it. And I still want to know what Kisaki gains all from this, except making money with other people's music…

*being late to da party* Hm… I still don't know how to feel about the last season, though I have seen it 2 months ago. It was kinda boring? I liked the first two seasons much more. Maybe all the fun went away because Moriarty wasn't in it. He was definitely one of the better villains (which is no surprise as he had more screentime than Charles Augustus Magnussen and was a better fleshed out character). The last ep of the 3rd season surely had it's twists and turns and also enough action to keep me interested, but the first two episodes felt so off and rather like soap operas. maybe because I am not interested into the "bro love" between Sherlock and Watson and care even less about his wife Mary. I am also tired of Moffat's gay jokes. I know he does it to make fun of the crazy slash-loving pats of the fandom, but after two seasons it has started to become just an old running gag. I don't know what to expect from season 4. I just hope there will be less romance and Sherlock-Watson drama and more plot, more interesting cases and characters, who aren't as flat as paper.

Jup, das ist richtig. Ich bin zwar schon über 20, habe aber noch keinen Job (aber hoffentlich ändert sich das bald). Mein problem wäre auch, dass ich einfach nicht alleine wo anders hin fahren will. Mag irgendwie seltsam klingen, aber ich habe da ein bisschen Angst. Vermutlich liegts auch einfach daran, dass ich selten reise und wenn, dann nie alleine. Außerdem sind die Tickets irgendwie sehr teuer. Zumindest von Wien nach Deutschland. D:

I am pretty sure post-witch house already exists. There are a few people who use it, since according to them original witch house died out in 2009 or 2010. I have the feeling this whole post- thing started with post-punk in the 80s (or better 90s, since before then everything was just crammed under either punk or "Wave")

Ich gehe nicht. erstens irgendwie zu weit (und ich bin pleite und kann mir kein Bahnricket leisten zurzeit) und irgendwie interessieren mich die Bands nicht wirklich. Wenn es irgendwer anders wäre (z.b. Cell), dann würde ich es mir überlegen. Und yay, endlich ist der Thread wiederbelebt worden

It's time we forbid Lycaon fangasm discussions on this forum. They are pointless and always circle around how Lycaon is so kewl because Yuuki is hot and everyone disagreeing with that is a weeb (oh the irony).

I've only listened to a few songs from Gladsheim. I think it is decent, though noting special. Crimson Nail however is really good. I really like how aggressive and emotional it is, especially once Kaya starts to go fully banana in the last half. And it doesn't sound like most of the aggressive stuff other VK bands put out in the moment. My only concern with them is the production. I think their music may come off more powerful and impressive if the production was better. Like many people have already said, the guitars sound weak and the drums sound cheap.

The only thing I know for sure is that tumblr has pretty much changed the definition of that word to suit their "Sexism! opression!" speech. Originally a friendzoned guy was just one person (mostly a guy) who was in love with their best friend, but said friend didn't return that affection. In the TV series "Friends", where the term freindzone first appeared, it was also meant to mean a guy who will never have a chance for his unrequited love to turn into a real relationship, because he missed the chance for his friend to become romantically interested into him. I guess from here it changed into a "loser, who is too dumb to get a girl". I can remember tumblr picking it up in ca. 2011 (if I remember correctly), where it started to mean "someone who has a friendship with you, but expects it to be more". And then finally it transformed into "guys who demand sex and attraction from women simply for being nice". I am not going to deny that such people don't exist and that those idiots may be even using the term friendzone unironically (as it happens at OKCupid very often nowadays), but I still don't really think that the friendzone is real. It is just a word, created by a TV series, changed into something entirely different because some online community needed it to use it as a description for a certain kind of personality or to use it in rants. It seems the word firendzone has one primary function: to scapegoat guys, who are frustrated because they are alone and unable to find a person to spend their time with and to brand them for doing this only because of Seeeeeex. I fucking hate especially how so many immature brats online use the term to denounce guys, who really just wanted to be nice and have manners (such as holding a door) for being "Fedora wearing guys who feel friendzoned". Which also equals with "evil, sexist and overprivileged" to them.

I like Kiryu more. Royz songs are not my thing at all… except maybe Lilia, since it was really different from their usual stuff. Sadly they won't try to expand their sound into the direction Lilia had and their album didn't impress me at all. Kiryu may be repetitive, but their music is appealing much more to me. And I don't find Mahiro's voice bad or even weird. It's a matter of taste and his voice requires some time to get used to.

^^^ I think if VK bands would stop with their over the top stage antics and cheesiness a lot of their appeal would get lost. What got me into VK was actually the fact, that they were extremely overexaggerting in anything (from visuals to perfomances to the music). To be honest, most VK PVs are just posing around. And even though it looks totally ridiculous most of the time, it still has it's own charme. I especially like this PV for all of it's amazing VK dance moves and hand waving like the vocalist is trying to summon something from another dimension: (sadly the HQ version is gone, so bear with that pixelated mess)

Next trend in VK: Rapcore. I can already see it.

MadWinK. definitely still need a Luna Sea and Madeth gray'll copyband.

Both parties sure have points, but what bugs me more is that so many people paint the "elders" of the scene as narcistic assholes who are jealosuy of other bands and who try to overestimate their own success. Because his is not true. Of what should the elders be jealous? And why? After all, groups like LUNA SEA, KJamaitachi, X Japan and Pierrot were extremely popular and influential on the genre. It wouldn't really make sense if they were jealous of all these bands in the VK scene that started out (in one point of history) as their copy bands. New Visual kei is vastly different from old VK, but if you trace back the history of any modern band, epecially big bands like the Gazette, you will always end at LUNA SEA and their peers from that time. Also I am sure that most modern VK musicians are aware of the influence those old bands had. I am sure too that they all admire their elders. Therefore painting the elders as ignorant, envious assholes is pretty mean and not right. Also: why aren't they allowed to give their own opinion on VK? They were pretty much the creators, the fathers of VK. If it wasn't for them, VK wouldn't even be a thing nowadays. So they have all the reason to talk about it as they want. You don't have to agree with them, you don't even need to listen to them. It doesn't hurt you either that most of them disllike what their "baby" has grown into. I don't really understand how sensible one can be when the opinion of one musician makes you so angry that you have to talk bad about them. But maybe I am just growing sick and tired of people banging their heads against each other, just because their precious Kyo has said something about VK which they didn't like. (Also sure that in at least 20 years the popular VK bands of today will say the same about the next generation of VK bands) And on a side note: LUNA SEA and Co. were definitely original, at least in their time span, when VK wasn't really thing and not many bands played in this style. In my opinion they are even original today. There may have been a lot of copy cats, but no other band actually reached the same level they had. Their impact on the japanese music scene was pretty big too, and wasn't just limited to futire Visual kei, but probably japanese rock music in general. I doubt that Sugizo is envious of "modern stuff" as their music is timeless and perfect as it is. And show me any modern day VK band that has reached the same legendary status, influence and fame that LUNA SEA have, please. And I am saying this as someone who isn't such a big fan of them. But I am not an igorant idiot and claim that they are a forgettable band who didn't pull of anything. (I may agree with the statement about Angelo, but not Dir en grey. The latter don't even have any connection to VK anymore, so comparing their current stylistic direction with the stagnation of today's VK scene is far-fetched. And them playing their old songs form time to time doesn't really count and doesn't make them VK)

I have to say it's really entertaining to read all this things. Bet Kisaki is laughing his ass off if he'd see us being so puzzled. I still wonder though why he or a staff member of him would invest so much time and energy into this…

Maybe it will become a trend in the future and apart from silly pseudonyms, VK bands may also claim to have blood type π, astrological signs such as "Unicorn" and state their hometown is Uranius Patera, a vulcan on Mars.