[Band Battle] Chanty vs. cinema staff

[CAT5 9075]

Hey, everyone. I thought this might make for a pretty cool match-up. The most obvious difference between both of these bands is that one is visual and the other is not, but I actually think these guys have a bit more in common than what meets the eye. For lack of a better term, both cinema staff and chanty play similar styles of "indie-rock" with faint midwestern emo influences (the riffage, guitar tones, and even random, yet scarce screams that both bands employ). Both bands are also really poppy, opting for big, catchy hooks, accessible melodies, and mostly straightforward arrangements - all while maintaining a subtle balance with their more raw, aggressive sides. Both vocalists are also fairly melodramatic, haha.

 

On a more trivial tip,  I think it's interesting to note that I've often seen chanty described as "a vk band that sounds like J-indie", while I've also seen J-indie fans describe cinema staff's vocalist as "sounding vk". Whatever the case, I think it's clear that both bands have a decent amount of crossover appeal. Which band do you prefer, and why?

 

Chanty

 

Samples:

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

VS

cinema staff

 

Samples:

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

[Spectralion 394]

I prefer Chanty. 

 

My preference is definitely biased, because I only listen to their music video 🙈

[Pretsy 1343]

A bit tricky pairing there despite the logical origins - both playing midwest emo-ish stuff and whatnot

 

But even so, Cinema Staff has lots of stuff to boast about (not to mention their legacy thanks to CS-lite bands nowadays) while Chanty does not unfortunately provide the most sufficient image of their palette with their yet otherwise minuscule, incomplete repertoire.

 

So based on this unfortunate sizing and legacy bias alone,  I will go with Cinema Staff.

 

also completely unrelated reason:

 

I sometimes pretend inside my head that La'cryma Christi would have been doing this shit (honestly, I could imagine this guitarwork in their songcraft too)

 

Instead of bland pop rock and glam schlock they resorted to later on after 2000 album but yeah, it's also about personal leanings really.

Edited November 20, 2016 by Alroy

[herpes 1597]

they both kinda suck but the members of cinema staff seem to be pretty good musicians which is where they differ

[doombox 4421]

I would never say cinema staff sounds remotely vk-ish. Mizuki's vocals especially are very soft and smooth. I think whoever said he sounds vk does not actually listen to vk, tbh.

 

I'd have to go with Chanty. As much as I enjoy cinema staff, I think Chanty actually has a more dynamic and interesting sound, imho. I'm just mad at myself for not looking into them until last year. 

[Ada Suilen 652]

Hard choice for me, since I like both of them. I think that both Chanty and Cinema Staff have a dynamic rock sound, but I prefer more Chanty's unpredictable and colorful approach.

[Pretsy 1343]

1 hour ago, doombox said:

I would never say cinema staff sounds remotely vk-ish. Mizuki's vocals especially are very soft and smooth. I think whoever said he sounds vk does not actually listen to vk, tbh.

 

I'd have to go with Chanty. As much as I enjoy cinema staff, I think Chanty actually has a more dynamic and interesting sound, imho. I'm just mad at myself for not looking into them until last year. 

There's this guy who also got behind this notion of "sounding vk" in cinema staff's case around those FB's J-indie circles and AFAIK he had Unite (well, that vk act) in his mind when describing them - which is surprisingly apt when we think of comparisons (uplifting, soft but still sorta medium-ranged vocalcraft etc.). VK vocals have no fixed medium (we are not living 00s anymore) at this point so it's really difficult to argue about  "objectivity" or "they definitely don't listen to vk" (the hell we know?!).

 

I mean, sometimes people even guess rather out-of-nowhere  VK influences of J-indie figureheads to this day, e.g. TK (avid Luna Sea fan) or Junichi Konno from Karasu (Mucc and Merry somewhat influenced his work on several albums).

 

 

Edited November 20, 2016 by Alroy

[doombox 4421]

13 minutes ago, Carmelzors said:

There's this guy who also got behind this notion of "sounding vk" in cinema staff's case around those FB's J-indie circles and AFAIK he had Unite (well, that vk act) in his mind when describing them - which is surprisingly apt when we think of comparisons (uplifting, soft but still sorta medium-ranged vocalcraft etc.). VK vocals have no fixed medium (we are not living 00s anymore) at this point so it's really difficult to argue about  "objectivity" or "they definitely don't listen to vk" (the hell we know?!).

 

I mean, sometimes people even guess rather out-of-nowhere  VK influences of J-indie figureheads to this day, e.g. TK (avid Luna Sea fan) or Junichi Konno from Karasu (Mucc and Merry somewhat influenced his work on several albums).

 

I'll give you that if that vk vocal sounds anything like cinema staff it is because that vk artist is going after a POP vocal style. It's also a little convenient for your argument that you'd exclude all the artists before 00s, though. Do they no longer count as visual kei for some reason? lol. But I do understand that as time goes on maybe we're having more and more pop influenced visual kei and that is possibly confusing the issue. However, I still don't hear visual influences in cinema staff at all. So TK or Junichi Konno really have nothing to do with this.... 

[Pretsy 1343]

1 hour ago, doombox said:

 

I'll give you that if that vk vocal sounds anything like cinema staff it is because that vk artist is going after a POP vocal style. It's also a little convenient for your argument that you'd exclude all the artists before 00s, though. Do they no longer count as visual kei for some reason? lol. But I do understand that as time goes on maybe we're having more and more pop influenced visual kei and that is possibly confusing the issue. However, I still don't hear visual influences in cinema staff at all. So TK or Junichi Konno really have nothing to do with this.... 

A few bullets:

 

- "pop vocal style" is very ambiguous concept. I still fail to see how it would prove your point inside our J-indie spectrum.

 

- I excluded acts before 00s because VK vocals are not just about pure gackting, squawking or warbling anymore. Albeit us witnessing throwback acts every now and then, we notice that today's bandwagon has also opted for more indie-friendly, albeit funnily pitched (still indie-friendly) vocalwork among newer acts. Or are you implying that acts akin to DIV, Unite, Chanty,  Blu-Billion and other indie pop/rock influenced acts are dedicated lynch-ian crooning posterboys as well?  So I still cannot understand why you would presume those who cast those comparisons to be *OBJECTIVELY* wrong and "unaware of VK" (= implying?).

 

- TK and Junichi Konno have a lot to do with this because indie vocalcraft is not the art of one trick ponies either as of in this decade really.

 

 So let's rest the case:

 

Cinema Staff may not be inherently "vk-lite" as in influences but comparisons to vk are not far off if we touch certain (coincidental) nuances them and certain VK acts of today's exposure have in common. Don't expect anyone "listening to VK" to be immediately "MH-savvy" (MH is not the lone oasis of VK fandom tbqh).

 

("QED")

Edited November 20, 2016 by Alroy

[CAT5 9075]

14 hours ago, doombox said:

I would never say cinema staff sounds remotely vk-ish. Mizuki's vocals especially are very soft and smooth. I think whoever said he sounds vk does not actually listen to vk, tbh.

 

@Carmelzors- already touched on a few things that I was going to, but to elaborate on my anecdote in the OP - well, you're correct. The people that said Mizuki sounds VK don't actually listen to VK, in fact a few of them downright despise the scene. However that doesn't mean their assessment is exactly invalid either. In general, J-indie fans are attuned to a different kind of singing than visual kei fans are (note that when i say J-indie fans, i'm not referring to people who listen to those "indie-pop-rock" bands or pop-rock that tries to come off as indie).

 

The fans i'm referring to are used to listening to bands that don't put a huge emphasis on the vocals - where the vocals are kind of secondary to the music, the lyrics, and the overall feeling/aesthetic. Whereas with VK - even tho you have a broad range of vocalists in the scene - more often than not, you can still generally tell when a vocalist is VK, as most of them have this kind of melodramatic/theatric flare to their voices, and as my Japanese friend says - a lot of them sound as if they have accents while they're singing as opposed to just singing "naturally". While that's debatable, you should at least be able to understand that when these hardcore J-indie fans hear a guy like Mizuki sing in the style that he does, it's very easy to lump him the same category or class of vocalists as VK - even if it's not completely accurate, it's still somewhere in the ballpark.

 

I can certainly relate because most of the J-rock I listened to before I got into J-indie was Visual Kei. In fact, I had a really tough time getting into J-indie because it seemed like a lot of the vocalists sounded really apathetic or just had really uncharacteristic voices - whereas with VK, the vocalists usually have a ton of quirks and nuances to their singing. They were just completely different styles. This is all very general of course, but I hope it helps illustrate the overall dichotomy of vocal styles between both scenes and how someone might possibly consider Mizuki as VK-sounding. 

 

@Carmelzors - it's funny because when I made this thread, I was much more focused on the bands' parallels and completely neglected the size of their respective discographies, so that's definitely a good point you made.

 

Personally, I have to go with cinema staff. When it comes to pop-rock bands with indie sensibilities, or just really poppy-sounding indie-rock - whatever you want to call it, I feel like cinema staff have this arena completely locked down, and I've personally not heard a band do it better. For me, they pretty much set the blueprint.. Even after going major, they've never released anything less than solid. They're STILL cranking out great tunes and haven't gone completely pop, despite a few scares here and there. Objectively speaking, they're definitely the more technical band here as well.

 

Chanty are really freaking good, though. In fact, I'm pretty sure they're one of my favorite active VK bands (even though I haven't thought too much about this). I do feel like they attempt to do more with their sound than cinema staff does as @doomboxnoted, but because of that, I also feel like it makes them less unique in a sense. Like, I could hear a cinema staff and instantly know it's a cinema staff song - they stand out amongst both their peers and the younger bands they've influenced (which kinda confers with @Carmelzors' point about their legacy). Whereas chanty just isn't as immediately recognizable and don't necessarily stand out from their peers in any spectacular fashion.

 

But anyways, it's cool to get everyone's different opinions on this. It's also interesting to see how this battle is playing out and what it says about mh's taste in general. I definitely didn't realize there were so many Chanty fans around.  

[Original Saku 1593]

wait who? lol

[doombox 4421]

@Carmelzors @CAT5 I will conceed I don't listen to near as much J-indie as either of you so what people consider VK-ish in the indie scene is completely alien to me. But as a long time VK listener, I simply don't hear this connection and nothing either of you have said really changes that, though I respect your opinions.

[Hakoniwa 222]

cinema staff~!

I mean, they make music and also help making movies, HOW AWESOME CAN THEY BE?!

Seriously now, cinema staff all the way.

[CAT5 9075]

1 hour ago, doombox said:

@Carmelzors @CAT5 I will conceed I don't listen to near as much J-indie as either of you so what people consider VK-ish in the indie scene is completely alien to me. But as a long time VK listener, I simply don't hear this connection and nothing either of you have said really changes that, though I respect your opinions.

 

Maybe some examples might help?

 

These are really general, as both areas of music have a broad range of vocalists, but you still find certain styles more prevalent than others in different scenes.

 

Here are some really typical indie-rock style vocals:

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

Here are some poppy VK vocals:

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

Now if you're used to listening to music in the former group, would it be completely inconceivable to more closely associate cinema staff's mizuki with the latter group of vocalists?

[doombox 4421]

@CAT5 I just don't hear it. He doesn't sound remotely vk-ish to me. He sounds like a pop vocal all day. Imho, vk vocals are based in hard rock, punk and metal. That's where I draw my perspective of what typical vk vocals are. 

[CAT5 9075]

3 minutes ago, doombox said:

@CAT5 I just don't hear it. He doesn't sound remotely vk-ish to me. He sounds like a pop vocal all day.

 

I am not saying that Mizuki "sounds vk", I'm just saying that I understand how some people can come to that conclusion about his voice. There are also a lot of VK guys (like some of the ones that I just listed) that go for poppy vocals, so I think it's pretty logical for some people to lump Mizuki in with them, even if it's not 100% accurate.

[doombox 4421]

10 minutes ago, CAT5 said:

 

I am not saying that Mizuki "sounds vk", I'm just saying that I understand how some people can come to that conclusion about his voice. There are also a lot of VK guys (like some of the ones that I just listed) that go for poppy vocals, so I think it's pretty logical for some people to lump Mizuki in with them, even if it's not 100% accurate.

I guess that's where we stall here. If I'm comparing someone to a style, I would compare them to what the bulk of that style sounds like, not the exceptions. We are looking at something from two opposing sides, so I simply don't share the sentiment of your/their comparison. 

[beni 2149]

Always interesting to see a match up outside of the norm! I personally prefer Chanty. They're one of my favourites in VK right now, and they're just my cup of tea, visually and musically compared to cinema staff. That's not to say that cinema staff shouldn't win. Of course I'm not surprised that Chanty is leading this, since the demographic of MH is so VK driven. There's definitely similarities between the two in sound, even though not that obvious, but the influences are there and I can hear the parallels. What with the pop and even mistakable sound of the two. It actually reminds me of how I had mistaken Yeti for J-rock and THE TURTLES JAPAN for Visual Kei. It's fascinating how it can happen for some people and not others. Since I've voted, I'm debating on switching it, because what it boils down to for me is the fact that I may prefer Chanty, but I do agree on cinema staff being the better group, as @Carmelzors and @CAT5 best explained it. 

[hiroki 5521]

well i'm embarrassingly ignorant of j-indies but i do listen to a fair bit of poppy vk vocalists so for what it's worth: i can possibly see how some people might think the cinema staff vocalist sounds vk-ish, although personally i wouldn't think so myself.  i think the distinction is quite tricky because as much as people often associate theatricality with vk, you can find similar qualities manifesting in j-indies in another manner: e.g. the intense/"shrill" kind of execution, and on the other extreme of the spectrum, the "aloof", lounge-y, "flat" delivery. it's probably fair to say that the cinema staff doesn't fall into either of these brackets, so maybe that's why they don't sound as ostensibly 'j-indies'?

 

to me there's still a discernible j-indies inflection in his vocals though, quite similar to those you find in pop-rock bands like NEXX, [Alexandros], and Fo'xTails - i dunno if they are j-indies (probably not) although they definitely aren't vk haha. that said, he does remind me a little of UNiTE's Yui - but even his style of vocals is kind of a rarity in vk. actually i feel that most of the bigger pop-vk bands (Guild, Anli Pollicino, BB, Dangan, SID, Megamasso, etc.) don't even sound that vk - in that (i) people who aren't familiar with vk won't be immediately turned off, (ii) there's little common ground between their vocalists.  there are exceptions like the BPR bands; Royz probably comes closest to what i'll associate with a 'vk pop sound' if there was ever one.

 

of course, a lot of these are based on broad-brush stereotypes that don't do any justice to either scene imo. across both scenes, vocals vary to such an extent that even if you take some kind of a weighted average (assuming that was even possible) it's still not representative of the scene as a whole. that's also why it's easy to find correspondences, although i tend not to make too much of them.

 

i also haven't voted because i'm not that familiar with either band (my  interest in chanty only extends as far as hoarding shia chekis.. oops)

Edited November 22, 2016 by hiroki