Japanese/VK style of singing

[paradoxal 2948]

I started thinking about the Japanese/VK way of singing while I was driving with my dad and listening to VK. My dad as a musician said something like "The instrumentals are quite nice, but why do they sing like that? Are there any "normal" rock vocalists in Japan?" By normal I think he meant the way eg. classic rock vocalists sing (to name a few: Joe Lynn Turner, David Coverdale, Ronnie James Dio, Ian Gillan etc). I seriously couldn't answer that question, since I basically listen to nothing but newer visual kei.

 

I've been listening to visual kei a long time but I feel ashamed because I am not very familiar with other Japanese rock music. So my question is:

Do that kind of Japanese vocalists exist?

And if they don't, then why? Could it be just a matter of a different language and the way they've learned to talk and sing?

 

I'm sorry if this is a stupid question and I'm just a weeaboo who listens to nothing but VK, but at least I'll hopefully get some kind of answer.

[CAT5 9075]

I started thinking about the Japanese/VK way of singing while I was driving with my dad and listening to VK. My dad as a musician said something like "The instrumentals are quite nice, but why do they sing like that? Are there any "normal" rock vocalists in Japan?" By normal I think he meant the way eg. classic rock vocalists sing (to name a few: Joe Lynn Turner, David Coverdale, Ronnie James Dio, Ian Gillan etc). I seriously couldn't answer that question, since I basically listen to nothing but newer visual kei.

 

I've been listening to visual kei a long time but I feel ashamed because I am not very familiar with other Japanese rock music. So my question is:

Do that kind of Japanese vocalists exist?

 

The short answer is: YES

 

You will find all kinds of vocalists and all kinds of rock outside of VK if you look for it.

 

As for Visual Kei...I once asked my Japanese friend "why do VK vocalists sound like this", since he has an innate understanding of the language, and he replied that VK vocalists sing with kind of a forced accent, and that's it's not their natural singing voice. That explanation made an incredible amount of sense to me. Obviously, that doesn't mean that VK vocalists are singing "right" or "wrong" or anything like that - it's simply the style they choose to sing in.

 

So yeah, there you have it.

[paradoxal 2948]

 

The short answer is: YES

 

You will find all kinds of vocalists and all kinds of rock outside of VK if you look for it.

 

As for Visual Kei...I once asked my Japanese friend "why do VK vocalists sound like this", since he has an innate understanding of the language, and he replied that VK vocalists sing with kind of a forced accent, and that's it's not their natural singing voice. That explanation made an incredible amount of sense to me. Obviously, that doesn't mean that VK vocalists are singing "right" or "wrong" or anything like that - it's simply the style they choose to sing in.

 

So yeah, there you have it.

 

 

Wow, I had no idea that VK singers don't sing with their natural voices... Maybe this was the reason I was so confused with this subject. Now this seems a lot more logical. Thank you for sharing that piece of information!

 

But now I'm even more curious - since when has this started and how do their natural voices sound like. Considering the amount of foreign visual kei -inspired bands (though good ones are pretty rare) I'm wondering why Yohio seems to be the only one who has managed to make his voice sound like (new wave) VK vocalists' voices do.

[hiroki 5521]

I'm by no means an expert in singing but here are my views:

 

Generally, someone's singing voice is not their "natural voice", and that definitely isn't something peculiar to vk. A soprano's voice when she's singing the aria of Mozart's Magic Flute is going to be drastically different from her natural voice.

 

What's different in vk (imo) are the vocal techniques. There's an entire array of vocal techniques in vk - ranging from glissandos, enunciation, breathing techniques, to the kind of "crying" or "exaggerated" inflections you get in a lot of vk bands (Kiyoharu being a classic example of this last point) - in short, the so-called "vk sound" - that you rarely find outside vk. That's what makes a lot of vk music (but not all) sound exotic/strange to someone unfamiliar with vk.

 

The difference is that you can't change your voice, but can definitely pick up and hone your vocal techniques. Of course, there's bound to be some correlation between someone's "voice" and the kind of techniques suitable to that particular voice.

[Guest Magatsu]

it's also a way of tuning the vocal sound in the studio.

if you take Calmando Qual as example. on the last 3 Starwave works Hibiki's VOICE sound 100% different then how he sound LIVE.

So it will be also tuned more into the VKEI-ish sound vocal style

But yet his voice is not that typical Vkei-ish.

 

it's simply the way of tuning the voice after they recored it.

also the way of how they sing.

these 2 together bring the typical voice on TAPE.

 

But yet 99% off all vkei vocalist sound way different live than how they sound on CD ^^"

[237Q 154]

To add on Magatsu's post, my brother's reaction to vk was: "Why are the vocals so much louder than the instruments?" 

And I actually did start noticing it later and comparing to similar music from other countries, with vocals in vk you can often feel like they're just pasted onto the instrumental (i know studios do work that way, but saying it in comparison with others), so that may play a role too

[JukaForever 758]

 

 

But yet 99% off all vkei vocalist sound way different live than how they sound on CD ^^"

 

This is why I always look for live DVD or similar. I only listen to the live version of Noble and Lyrical Sympathy from Versailles, for example, and when I can, I listen to a live video in my ipod rather than a full playlist. 

[Guest Magatsu]

To add on Magatsu's post, my brother's reaction to vk was: "Why are the vocals so much louder than the instruments?" 

And I actually did start noticing it later and comparing to similar music from other countries, with vocals in vk you can often feel like they're just pasted onto the instrumental (i know studios do work that way, but saying it in comparison with others), so that may play a role too

 

Ah really?! I never really did notice such thing. but I like if vocals are louder.. then you can kinda enjoy hearing the vocalist.

 

This is why I always look for live DVD or similar. I only listen to the live version of Noble and Lyrical Sympathy from Versailles, for example, and when I can, I listen to a live video in my ipod rather than a full playlist. 

 

I never watched versailles live o.o so I guess it sound really way better? xD

[seikun 317]

Hmm, can someone provide a sample of this particualr way of singing in Visual Kei?

 

One of my friends once noted that Visual Kei singers tend to sing (I'm afraid I am not able to explain this well in english...) kind of deep or like making their voice resound in their chest, some kind of a dramatic singing. As a example, listen to Kanna (lusia) singing Ibara no ori. Jack Spooky is another example of this.

 

There other types of signing in Visual Kei, the feminine one like Yukari (Baiser), Satsuki (RENTRER EN SOI), etc

 

Could somebody post any videos so as to know what singing style we are talking about?

[Guest Magatsu]

^ easy

 

everything what sounds similar to; Gackt, Shaura, Kamito...

[seikun 317]

^ easy

 

everything what sounds similar to; Gackt, Shaura, Kamito...

Are we talking about the deep singing, the one that resounds in the chest and makes songs sound more dramatic as I commented in my previous post?

[Guest Magatsu]

Oh wait.. you kinda mean a totally different voice.

 

HAHA that's so difficult man in the VKei world of now.

 

Then I only can recomment you to check out the bands who always are in the band line up of the candy Spooky theater. Then you truly need to go more underground. and to look more far.

Soo..

Let's list up for you then.

Spooky Jam

SaTaN

Calmando Qual

The Candy Spooky Theater

the butterfly nine cord

highfashionparalyze

Emmuree

Lament
SIVA (disbaned)

 

check those bands who aren't typical visual. and then you have that kind of voice. BUT it aren't the typical visual kei sound voices.

[paradoxal 2948]

I wasn't originally talking about that deep, chest-originated, "faux baritone" voice (Kamijo, D, etc), but about the lighter and more normal style of VK singing, because that's the way I like it. When my dad commented the singer, I was listening to bands like DIV and Lustknot. But I think others might have been talking about the baritone voice.

 

There are some examples under the spoilers.

 

Yuki (Lustknot.) i'm ofc talking about his clean voice

 

Chisa (DIV)

 

I think it's pretty clear that those super low baritone voices aren't their real voices at all. But what about singers like Yuki (Lustknot.), Chisa (DIV), Yuuki (Lycaon), Subaru (Royz)?

[seikun 317]

I am not an expert in music and singing but doesn't the voice naturally change when singing?

 

People sound different when singing and speaking. I guess if you tried to sing with your speaking voice you might end up hurting your vocal chords since you need to use them diferently to sing and that obviously will change the tone of your voice, regardless of the music style.

[paradoxal 2948]

I am not an expert in music and singing but doesn't the voice naturally change when singing?

 

People sound different when singing and speaking. I guess if you tried to sing with your speaking voice you might end up hurting your vocal chords since you need to use them diferently to sing and that obviously will change the tone of your voice, regardless of the music style.

 

I was referring to what CAT5 said in the second post about forced accents etc. Of course everyone sings and speaks in a different voice, but I think we're discussing whether VK singers have "two different singing voices". CAT quote under the spoiler.

 

 

 

--

As for Visual Kei...I once asked my Japanese friend "why do VK vocalists sound like this", since he has an innate understanding of the language, and he replied that VK vocalists sing with kind of a forced accent, and that's it's not their natural singing voice. That explanation made an incredible amount of sense to me. Obviously, that doesn't mean that VK vocalists are singing "right" or "wrong" or anything like that - it's simply the style they choose to sing in.

--

 

[Guest Magatsu]

voice always change if you sing.

 

 

But Lustknot. & DIV have the typical vkei sound vocalist.

However.. I like DIV way more.. but not only because of vocal also the way how they make music.

 

But I like more the unique voices. voices who are special.

Aka Yasu from Acid Black Cherry

 

[nullmoon 784]

Wow, I had no idea that VK singers don't sing with their natural voices... 

 

I think a good example is Emiru from Aicle; compare his vocals in that band compared to Yeti. The difference is astounding and you can tell his vocals in the latter band are 'normal' so to speak.

[Pretsy 1343]

Also: Kamijo's HUGE difference in his vocals between Lareine and Versailles (as Champ pointed it out earlier, "Revenant Choir" was the last song where he used his ""natural"" vocals) + Hyde's weird vocal /singing style development throughout his career (baritone/dramatic (1991-1994) -> "normal" (1995) -> normal/dramatic (1996-2001) -> baritone (2002-2008) -> overdramatic (2009-))

 

I also get a lot of saying from people that vocals in vk are usually "too nasal" - I think it's kinda true tho (you guys can pinpoint some good examples by yourselves, like say...Old school Kyo?)

[seikun 317]

If asked I would say that the typical singing style in Visual Kei is the deep and/or dramatic one. But there are many singing styles in Visual Kei today.

 

Deep and/or dramatic

Kyouka (Aliene Ma'riage)

Rei (Lar~Mia)

Gackt (Malice Mizer and solo too)

Hisui (Madeth gray'll)

Etc.

 

The vocalist of Lustknot sounds dramatic to me.

 

And don't forget the feminine singing too:

 

Yukari (Baiser)

Satsuki (RENTRER EN SOI)

Kamijo (Lareine)

ARISU ARISUGAWA (Missalina Rei)

Kaya

Etc.

[sai 868]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-gRCaUTmiQ

 

I'm sort of curious, is this considered "forced" as well, or is this more related to classic rock vocalists considering DEAD END's inspirations?

 

Which brings me to the question, for how long has this been going on? Have bands like DEAD END/B-T/X/LUNA SEA started this trend, or is this something that happened later on?

[Peace Heavy mk II 7200]

Also: Kamijo's HUGE difference in his vocals between Lareine and Versailles (as Champ pointed it out earlier, "Revenant Choir" was the last song where he used his ""natural"" vocals) + Hyde's weird vocal /singing style development throughout his career (baritone/dramatic (1991-1994) -> "normal" (1995) -> normal/dramatic (1996-2001) -> baritone (2002-2008) -> overdramatic (2009-))

 

I also get a lot of saying from people that vocals in vk are usually "too nasal" - I think it's kinda true tho (you guys can pinpoint some good examples by yourselves, like say...Old school Kyo?)

I thought Kamijo more or less returned to what he actually sounded like from Holy Grail onwards? Lyrical Sympathy definitely wasn't natural for him at all since he hasn't sounded like anywhere else in the entirety of his career.

 

 

Examples of nasally tranny bands?

 

 

KISU ME KISU ME KISU ME KISU ME KISU ME KISU ME KISU ME KISU ME KISU ME KISU ME KISU ME KISU ME KISU ME KISU ME KISU ME 

[Qliffot 118]

It's very interesting topic, thank You @paradoxal for founding it.

 

Personally, I fancy it's in some way kind of general properties of Japanese language, it's nasality and accent, may it be, even not of one kind, as there are various dialects on various Japanese islands and it's somehow audible, when You listen to ensembles from various remote places of Japan's archipelago. Wikipedia dedicated the whole article to explain some differences between them in detail.

 

The other thing is when one vocalist inspires his way of singing from the other one and in this scene it seems really often happening. Let's focus for example in this, as You called it 'feminine way of singing', as it's kind of my favourite one, for my own voice is also pretty high and it's easier for me to sing with vocalist, when I listen to such a music Look, when You @seikun, e.g. state that Yukari and Satsuki have similar way of singing, don't forget that Yukari was first producer/manager, not sure, of early Rentrer en Soi recordings till mid 2005 and his last work with them was Keinの棺/Astreの絲 EPs. Besides, Kyouka's capability of various methods of singing is very broad and he could sing more femininely in past as well (viz. chorus in 古の愛物語 ～エンドレス). Some Japanese vocalists always seek to choose more difficult way of singing, like our commonly beloved maestro Nishimura, whose voice patterns mostly remind me of what Zorn does with Patton on his less free-jazz concerned recordings, and Kyo proved explicitly that even after about 20 years of singing, since I'm sure he had to exercise his singing amateurishly even before La:Sadie's era, his voice compass is still pretty enormous. Very noticeable in this genre of singing is in my humble opinion also that, what Atsushi Sakurai did on Buck-Tick's Stalin's cover おまえの犬になる.

 

And the other "genre" is mentioned above deep, dramatic, or faux baritone way. I don't know, which group first chose this way, or if it comes from some older, may it be folk tradition, but I guess, it's rather older, as 'dramatical' way of singing has been already chosen in mid 1980s by ensembles inspired by gothic movement (Madame Edwarda is the most famous Japanese goth band) and I can hear some influences on psychedelic recordings of J. A. Seazer from early 70s... However, I may generally agree that such a simplified division is at least decent.

 

To somehow summarize my conclusions, I think it's necessary to separate various kinds of phenomenons, existing on visual scene. As far, as there are many genres, which do not correspond to each other, which are sometimes most generally counted into an umbrella term of visual kei, as there's no one common motivation of singing for every vocalist therein. Sometimes their origin (i.e. if a group is from Tokyo, or from e.g. Nagasaki etc.) leads vocalists to spell the same words differently than anywhere else, and in other times the biggest characteristic is things that influenced them mostly, their own idols, the "schools" or "genres", which members they feel they are. I cannot give the one and true answer for this question though. Just a few loose thoughts...