Miku70

I’ve experienced that in VK twitter. 

They always ask me if I like Hatsune Miku 💀💀💀 EVERY DAMN TIME  
 

Whenever I show VK to someone they either ask if it's Kpop (😭) or if they are anime show promoters (😕), that's where VK is at right now where I'm living. 

[tracklist]
01. 舌切雀
02. 朧月夜
03. 転生輪廻
04. 花鳥風月
05. 雪月花
06. 自惚レテ愛玩
07. 反芻
08. 朔宵
09. 伽藍堂
10. 私ハ傀儡、猿轡ノ人形
11. 桜絡ミ
12. 化猫
13. 贄ノ筵
14. 鬼祭
15. 達磨
16. 婆娑羅
17. 野箆坊
18. 手纏ノ端無キガ如シ
EN01. 後ノ今宵
EN02. 鏖
EN03. アナザーサイド
EN04. 叫声
 

I'm far from an old hand in the fandom but I think I know what you're getting at. I’m actually gonna invert the question order because my thought process caused 2 to lead to 1:
 
2) From my perspective, Idol Kei is made up of Kawaii af Oshare Kei bands that don’t have a special sound to them and sound like they could’ve been mass-produced.  They're really successful despite being run of the mill and may just be industry plants. I don’t want to name names because it's just conjecture and they could be innocent. One of the biggest indicators, to me, is a lack of previous band history, i.e this is either their first or second band they’ve been a part of. It’s usually never more. It’s especially telling if they never had some dumbass high school garage band that was… Well, doing something. Or in the rare exceptions like Lunacy, showing some real promise and raw talent that just needs to be polished up. Tangent note, I’ve noticed in the VK fandom that we’re anal af about listing out a member’s previous band history. I’ve seen people write out band histories that span like 10 different bands for each member in forums and comments sections. Could this be a by-product of wanting to see the artistic process and evolution, or to check for industry plants? Well, that’s just conjecture...
 
1) That leads me to here. Stuff that makes me think, “Huh, is a debut band like this really making stuff that sounds this polished already? And damn, they kinda sound just like [some other band that sounds generic]” makes me wonder if they really did write it. One big indicator that a band isn’t ghostwritten is when the band members have a history that I can follow around. When I follow that history, I can usually find patterns in songwriting that trace to one member. Such as a love for that new wave sound he grew up with as a teen or a jazz influence from his formal lessons. Also, artistic evolution is a big indicator of a band being 100% "real", if you will, such as incorporating different genre elements as time goes by or being able to hear their music evolve as the members gain more experience with writing and performing songs.
 
3) That’s… Tricky. I’d go back as far as the early 2000s when An cafe existed, but were they really that manufactured? Maybe later then, but then I wouldn’t really know what year exactly. The jury’s out on this one 

4) As biased as I am to old school stuff and underground stuff that sounds like it was recorded on the vocalist’s bootleg Chinese Yak-Bak, I still listen to new school stuff, occasionally even bands that I think could be ghost written. It's cute and danceable, and it's usually written competently so it's not technically bad. Besides, sometimes I just need a break from the concept pieces and experimental songs from angura bands I love, ya know? Nothing wrong with that.
 
5) Every genre and scene deals with ghostwriting, even ones where literally all you write are the lyrics (big lol @ rap ghostwriting considering that in this day and age you can just read the writing on the wi-fi router and slap a trap beat over it to make a hit), I think VK won’t be negatively impacted by this by too much. Besides, it's not like these sickeningly saccharine sweet boy groups claim to be high art or some shit. There’s so much more that could seriously shoot VK in the foot, like continuing cute but ancient industry practices until the whole damn industry collapses.
 
6) I listen to lots more than just Visual Kei, but it’s still my #1 ever since I discovered it a few years ago. I wrote a long-ass paragraph on this in another thread but here’s a TL;DR:
- Jrock chords, baby, I want that shit injected into my bloodstream. They are actually really different from the Western pop chords. I’m no music major so I’ll spare you the half-assed music theory lesson and simply compare them in layman’s terms. Jrock chords are like a “question and answer” type of progression that resolves itself in an intrinsically… pleasant manner? It provides the question to the answer, simply. Western pop is like a “whole statement” type of progression, it’s meant to add more statements on to it.
- I love the looks a lot, they make the PVs so much more fun to watch! VK to me is more than looking pretty, it’s about expressing the meaning of the music through the use of visuals, using it as a compliment to the lyrics or even just with the actual song structure.
- I like how the lyrics are so much more subtle than in English. I know that it's a by-product of how Japanese is as a language when compared to English, but even still, I'm gonna argue this one because I have translated songs (mostly in my head these days) before and their subtle meanings don't get completely lost in translation, the thought process still stays intact in English. It’s actually kind of ruined English songs for me in all honesty because now many sound like “Hurr-Durr, I have to actually tell you how to feel about what I just said instead of letting you interpret it or understand the implications”. I could go on a rant about this shit. But let’s just say an English artist would say “I killed myself then everyone was sad” and a Japanese artist would say “[I was] erased from this earth, a fact that your tears tried to blur out”. I understand that being vague is upsetting to some but I feel like spelling it out so bluntly like so many western artists do is insulting to the listener’s intelligence. Or at least my intelligence…

Perhaps we could move the discussion about ghostwriting to this thread. Recently I've been watching the topic pop up very often, so maybe many of you guys would like to talk about it.
 
Maybe we could start by each one making up a list of the artists or songs or whatever stuff you consider useful to explain to somebody how ghostwritten music looks like and how not-ghostwritten music differentiates from it.
 
In my case, I think I caught a nice example while yesterday looking up for old classic I've never had the chance to try. It was the case for baroque. The contrast between their A-sides before disbanding and after their comeback screams idolization so loud that I couldn't believe my ears.
 
 
 
 
One doesn't need critical music-listening skills to appreciate, in one hand, in the pre-come-back songs, the experimental nature of the trashy and psychedelic arrengments in every song (and what amazes me the most is that these songs, as A-sides, where intended to serve for promotional, commercial, issues!); and in the other hand, the almost complete submission of every musical arrange, and even their looks, to a very well-known, standarized, Johnny'sesque aesthetic, in order to appeal to the recent younger fandom. The differences are so abysmal, and kinda scary, imo... from early century neo-Tokyo punks, to creamy-sweaty-ribbon-shotacon manga characters...
 
Anyway, and don't willing to enter into much musical details, further than what can be clearly seen in the example above, I think an indication of not-ghostwritten could be the lack of imitation of a song style as a whole. Let's say, a not-ghostwritten song would be one that, although you could clearly identify well-known music trends in it (a punk sound, a nu metal sound, etc.), or even previously famous artists signature arrangments (a Sugizoesque kind of solo, etc.), still sounds fresh while displaying said features in a way that you definitely know it wasn't heard/seen before. Inspiration is always there, nobody creates something from nothingness itself, but that doesn't mean you can't make your own version of it and through that create something unique.
 
Here are some songs that I returned to after a long time not listening to them. After being triggered with the whole baroque thing, I started to look up for '01~'05 releases, and hell... say what we know, VK was always about dragging otaku girls into fandom while displaying androgynous looks, so it always had a commercial approach inherent to it, and also bandomen were all chinpira prostitutes who knowed little about playing actual music, blabla... all of that is true to an extent, but those facts shouldn't deny that there actually was people trying to express themselves in their own way, even if the results where amateur and unpolished, and even if they signed a major contract and started to make their sound and appearance more appealing to mainstream...
 
 

This is a very good analysis and I don't have anything to add to that specifically, but I will say one thing: it seems like the general idea is that it's only the bands in the current scene that are basically labels' puppets who don't write their own music, and albeit this is definitely true in some cases, I feel like this has pretty much always been a thing in vk? I remember that interview from years ago from an insider in the industry talking about older bands of the 90's- early 00's, and there was talk about bands using ghost-writers even then.
 
In my opinion, if you wanna make sure that bands write their own music, stick to indies or at least follow the bands closely enough to know if they ever post about their composition process and stuff like that. Most bands I follow often post previews of the music they've been writing and stuff like that, so I don't even question it. That and of course pay attention to their evolution and sound and past bands and stuff like that, like most people have said. Basically, keep your eyes open.

Etsuo Nagura (in charge of sampling/electronics) of the experimental/noise/extreme metal band Endon has passed away on April 26. He was 34 years old. His brother, the vocalist Taichi confirmed the sad news on his Twitter:
 
 
Damnnn R.I.P...

SHIN ( ex ViViD)   new single 「RE:」  will be realeased at 2020/08/05.
 
MTR ( ex-ViViD イヴ(IV) ) took part in the composition.
 
 

Pretty sure I can think of better ways to throw around okane than to pay some random ho to get sloshed. But hey, all in the name of entertainment~

Yah, really all things should be legally regulated and taxed. Booty shakin, drinkin too. I would be surprised if all clubs honestly pay all their taxes though tbh. 😂✊🎶

Well ghost writing should happen a lot, since so many bands sound the same, as if one person would write all the songs.
 
 
But, we all know that most of bandman are bandman because they want attention... and woman love to pay for getting love.  ( *・ω・)ノ
Even if you get hurt afterwards anyway.
 
 

It is always a question of how far I can go without pissing some key figures off. Recently I tweeted in Japanese about these feelings towards the current seen and got around 600 likes, had lots of people DMing me saying they feel the same, but one person who does ghostwriter work got angry, can understand, we all gotta make a living. 

I'm really interested in this topic of the lack ofart spirit within the scene. If it existed since always, I think it is patent that is reached whole new levels in the last ten years. During this time, which for me still is a time of much frustration over discovering good artists in this scene, I've been digging a lot older bands, and kinda started to understand some threads tied to its origins, differentiating key acts, waves into the scene, and also looking profoundly for an understanding of the many Western trends that inspired VK since its very proto-eras when even the "VK" label didn't existed. Unfortunately, English is not my mother tongue, so writing down all my thoughts over these matters could take me a very hard time in order to make things meaningful and not weird at all, lol! But perhaps I could try to do it in the near future!
 
In the meanwhile, feel free to make posts about your thoughts over this stuff! I think many of the users here are interested in discussing much more things than liking A or B band's scheduled new release and PV...
 
@ghostpepper I will definitely read an online "diary" of your work behind the curtains! 

Like this video?

That guy is a bit more oldschool in ways, overall top guys in kabuki are a bit different. One thing I can say is the image that the vice video and this video too give of the host industry is like a 10% view. Ive thought of doing a youtube video explaining what it is really like but kind of do not want to be mainly known for that if it blew up tbh. Now I do designs for host clubs in our group and help newer guys who come into our group so I still see it from behind the scenes everyday. Honestly lots of parallels to how vk guys do mitsu eigyou. 

Not innocence, most of those guys are A-holes but hey, that is what the girls pay for haha. 

Haha oh god, to make it simple: non suit wearing i.e. regular clothes (shifuku) cute look? Like how vk bands have a more cute young makeup style if that makes sense, does not drink alcohol often, sells on face instead of talk abilities. Hard to explain all in english terms in detail. 

of newer groups? I am not really into any new groups and honestly was surprised by one of the newer groups I  saw my coworkers acquaintance  had made demos for. Basically an easy way to know a band is really doing it 100% themselves is like how I said before, do they have a gradual buildup in their work? Demonstration singles etc. and do the members who are "writing" have previous band history with similar sound?
 
Now talking about current VK is like talking about WWE wrestling, the stuff behind the scenes is more interesting than what is going on at face haha.
these times are just a phase hopefully and will die out or VK will become some shitty menhera appeal idol johnnys fake rock thing mainly forever.
Hosts being in the scene has been going on since Yoshiki haha. But even Host culture has changed alot within the past decade. I had fun doing host work in the past but the whole "neo-host" wave is really bad @_@ ;; changed quite a bit in the environment.

This discussion brings back some memories of the time the tokyo damage report about the inner workings of the VK industry was posted on the net and so many overseas fans were in total disbelief and denial. Most of us overseas fans never had been to a live in Japan and most of had no idea how the scene truly was in its home country. So it was really hard for many to stomach to hear that their beloved oh-so-perfect and "better than plastic, mass-produced 'murrican pop music" bands were just as fabricated by labels and couldn't write their own music or play their instruments. 

Even then many new VK bands were just talentless hacks who wanted to get their 15 mins of fame and easy access to pussy, and that was maybe 8-10 years ago? Around that same time LUNA SEA's Sugizo and Dir en grey Kyo commented on the then contemporary scene, that the newbies are not passionate about making art and music, but only care about attracting chicks. I remember how much hate and flack they both got then, with some fans accusing Sugizo to be jealous of the young bandomen, because they were hotter and got more girls, lol. How naive we gaijins were back then. Ofc we would also believe that there are no kusomen - our fav bandomen are all perfect, because they are hawt!

It's good that the scene nowadays is more open about discussing what's going on inside and that we are not foaming at our mouths because someone "insulted" our fav bands by pointing out the obvious… like Kisaki's misdeeds. If that would have become public ten years ago I bet you there would have been at least a small army of people defending this guy. At least now most people see him for what he is.

That said, VK always rubbed along with a bit of delinquency and depravity. Since the hosts entered the scene that got even more amplified, but that transition has taken place since a whole decade. I think we reached a point where almost none of the "original" spirit is left behind. Ofc you get the occasional band that's truly concerned about doing art, but for every honest group you get 10 forgettable ,mass-produced trash ones.

Can you name the bands that you are sure they write their own stuff?

Found this random pic on Tumblr, idk if this counts

Hanging out with Kiryu as well

I had a German friend that met Kuina. She said he was really nice.
 
Talked to a girl from Thailand that met Mahiro several times. Said he was very sweet and kind, & gives people hugs!
 
Most of BPR is supposedly true to their personas, if you're into that. They're crazy loopy though.

Off the top of my head: Clack inc., Doku, Clack inc., Lamiya, Clack inc., Micbam, Clack inc., Eluna, Clack inc., JE:NOVA, Clack inc., Ultimate Sonic, Clack inc., Visual Laboratory, Clack inc., Hueye, Clack inc., Astaroth, and last but not least... Clack inc. 😜
 
Oh, almost forgot, Clack inc. Marvelous Cruelty are from Osaka too!