Unclean vocals and none singing voices

[cruel-crucible 89]

My opinion revolves around that philosophy, though.

 

It depends on your preferences. If I find that the screams/growls fit the music, I don't even think about them unless I want to analyze the song. They're just "there" just like the bass line or the guitar riffs. For the screams/growls to be outstanding and make an impression without focusing on them, they have to "click" with the music, so it makes you go: "Wow, this part of the song kicks ass". 

 

I'm used to death growls and screaming, Amon Amarth is one of my favorite bands, and since I suppose most of you are familiar with them, you know that Johan Hegg growls all the time. 80% of the metal music I listen to contains growling and screaming. It just seems all natural to me, so your exposure to the techniques probably means a lot as well. I showed my classmate Megaromania's APOCALYPSE PV and that was his first time hearing any screams in a song. He said he liked the music, but not the screaming. Honestly, I didn't even realize there was any screaming. I'm used to it.

 

I do notice it when I don't like it, however. I had someone tell me once that they liked ClearVeil Saki's screams in "Cold prey". I love ClearVeil, but damn, I've always found those screams dreadful. Whenever the screaming parts come on, they just startle me, they seem so out of place. But hey, someone else liked them, so are they necessarilly bad? I bet you could make Maria Cross' "screams" sound good in the right type of a song. You can judge a vocalist's singing quality based on hitting the right notes, but how do you judge screaming/growling? These are just animalistic, raw, and guttural sounds, I don't think there are any quotas you have to fulfill in order to be called a "good growler". I don't think you can tell just by hearing whether the technique is good or bad in terms of vocal cord damage, so you can't even judge by that. You can admit that Adele is a great singer because of a wide vocal range and whatnot, but still dislike her 'cause you don't like the color of her voice, or maybe her music. But how do you classify someone as either good or bad at screaming/growling? I really have no idea, please, tell me?

'Cause otherwise it just falls down to what sounds good to your ears in the end.

[blackdoll 907]

awww megaromania is good i think because its for their music and fits perfectly. btw is it sui doing the growling?

[Champ213 1858]

I'm used to death growls and screaming, Amon Amarth is one of my favorite bands, and since I suppose most of you are familiar with them, you know that Johan Hegg growls all the time. 80% of the metal music I listen to contains growling and screaming. It just seems all natural to me, so your exposure to the techniques probably means a lot as well. I showed my classmate Megaromania's APOCALYPSE PV and that was his first time hearing any screams in a song. He said he liked the music, but not the screaming. Honestly, I didn't even realize there was any screaming. I'm used to it.

 

 

 

I think the "being used to it" is a huge factor. Some years ago I didn't like harsh vocals, or at least not when they compromised the entire song. Nowadays it seems completely normal to me. Sometimes today I come across bands with harsh vocals that I don't like at first, but because the songs themselves are great I listen to them anyway - until I suddenly notice that I don't mind the vocals anymore (One example would be the band Skálmöld - and that guy isn't bad by any means, it just seemed a bit too raspy for my taste at first.)

 

I couldn't really say why I like some harsh vocals and not others, I guess some just lack power and energy, or they just sound unpleasant (odd, I know - it's screaming, it's not exactly supposed to sound pleasant in the first place). But I'm defenietyl not one to analyze their "technique" or something.

[blackdoll 907]

I think the "being used to it" is a huge factor. Some years ago I didn't like harsh vocals, or at least not when they compromised the entire song. Nowadays it seems completely normal to me. Sometimes today I come across bands with harsh vocals that I don't like at first, but because the songs themselves are great I listen to them anyway - until I suddenly notice that I don't mind the vocals anymore

i do the same thing

[Peace Heavy mk II 7200]

 

 

I am 85% sure that vkei drummers use this video as a tutorial to learn how to play drums for the 15 seconds drumming is covered.

[TheBistroButcher666 228]

My problem with VK trying to do numetalcorelawl vocals is that it's just a bad imitation of establish genres that have set the standard for that style.

I agree that being used to is one way to look at it. When you've been listening to actual death metal bands or black metal bands and harsh vocals is pretty much the trademark of those genres, the poorly imitated VK take on it is going to just not sound good at all. You're used to just hearing the better use of that style.

 

@aoi mochi the screams sound retared,

 

Wow, very descriptive.....

[Pandabear 414]

 

When it comes to me, It’s not like the first thing I focus on when listening to a metal band or a band who uses unclean vocals are the growls or screams. I generally take in the music as a whole and different overt elements on how melodic or skilled they may be and some subtle aspects after multiple listens. However if I’m listening to a song and I hear something I don’t like, it automatically draws my attention. It doesn’t matter if it’s the vocals, the guitars or the drumming, a bad enough performance by either of those things can and will ruin a song for me.

 

Sure you don’t need formal training to growl, in fact a lot of vocalists in the genre started off as self taught, but they practice their butts off to sound good and learn proper technique. Like it or not, technique is a huge part of unclean vocals, regardless of the type you’re doing. It’s protects your voice, maximizes the impact of your growls/screams and allows you to be more versatile if needed. Just like a good self taught guitarist will work to learn how to properly play a guitar and be competent at a basic level, so should anyone doing growls. Otherwise much like a incompetent guitar player, you will sound bad. This is hard to explain when it comes to growling/screaming, but if it sounds wimpy, awkward, is missing prescence, off time, too shrill or sounds shakey, than chances are it's bad. 

 

I understand the tone and style of unclean vocalist’s vary and will attract certain people and repel others, but the basic foundation for the growls and screams should be there. If it’s not, then in my opinion the performance is bad and it will undoubtedly ruin the music. There’s no way around it, just like you can’t excuse a guitar player for hitting all the wrong notes on the fretboard, or a sloppy out of time drummer and expect to achieve a good level of quality music. Suck at growls? Suck at playing guitar or anything else? Then don’t put out music that sounds bad, has any type of bad performances or practice until at the very minium you sound decent. This is one of the core factors that separates the pro’s/serious musicians from the noobs.

 

I’ve seen this problem in the underground metal/hardcore scence on the web too. Kids trying to be all metalz by doing unclean vocals that just sound god awful, so this isn’t just limited to VK. Unfortunately VK has become one of the few scenes on the planet where anyone who wants to be metal (or actually play any type of genre), yet don’t quite possess the skills to do so, can get away with bad performances and still get a decent amount of fans/fame. If these bands started off as “normal” non VK bands they would either get laughed off for their terrible music/performances or no one would even pay attention to them. But don typical VK attire, use stage names and quirky nonsensical album/tour/song titles incorporating butchered English and OMG, these guys are so good, their so unique (bad). 

 

I’ve gone off on an entirely different matter here, but I feel it applies to the reason why there aren’t many good metal bands in the VK scene and why their growlers suck. And as Arithmetica has mentioned they’re trying do the whole core genre which already has a set standard. Even the most unoriginal, blandest boringcore bands out there have better skill and performances than most VK bands. 

 

To bring things back on topic, here are some Japanese Bands I can think of who use unclean vocals and who's music I dig.

 

One of my fav metal bands from Japan

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5fo0CR23Z8

 

Maiko has more balls in her screaming rants than most of her male counterparts.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVG_bBJU94A

Hayato has pretty good screams/growls.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IK-g_LiHK6w

Who says girls can't do death metal?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teFUAmqHqKA

Shoohey is featured in a lot of vocaloid work but he's got the goodz.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8LKmFWAyQso

 

Other non vk bands with good/decent unclean vocals IMO.

Maximum the Hormone

Backshot Roberts

Crossfaith

Pay Money To my Pain

Artema

And a lot more that escape me at the moment.

[Peace Heavy mk II 7200]

 you mentioned girls with unclean vocals but no Sigh

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lT3MVwnnsc

[blackdoll 907]

@pandabear i dont like the first, and the 2nd i dont care for.

 

but she's good

[Archaic 14]

Maybe because I have dabbled in NA rock with harsh vocals already during my teens but I find them now quite boring and non-dynamic for me to keep listening to bands that rely on them a lot or strictly. It's quite the turn off when a "vocalist" can't actually sing and just do harsh vocals most of the time. I now prefer a balance of strong singing and harsh ever since I was captivated by Mejibray and Signal when I first got into them. I am in the hunt for more now but there is so much more interesting and dynamic artists out there that is hard to really justify listening to bands with only growls, screams, etc for vocals no matter the instrumentals

you talking about the post-hardcore scene? i actually come from the bordering post-hardcore/deathcore and deathmetal scene

and the reason why I stopped to listening mostly to all of it because all the unclean vocals sound...the same!

The songs sound the same! If you listen to 3 post hardcore albums in a row it would have felt like an 80 minute song basically.

But there are still bands that still stand out to me. I LOVE unclean vocals, just not the way NA post hardcore/deathcore bands do it.

Bring me the horizon's vocalist (isn't NA, and their style is not really post-hardcore anymore) used to have really unique uncleans.

Another unique vocal usage is Mejibray, which is why i love mejibray so much, Tsuzuku has amazing screams..very unique/dynamic style

[blackdoll 907]

^their are some unique bands. no one does screams like a thousand years of plagues. not that i heard at least. he sounds like a alien 

[Archaic 14]

I just listened to some songs and the unclean vocal style's highs used to be like Bring me the Horizon's early songs.

nevertheless....I can't listen to this kinda music LOL it's kinda boring for me, what is this..? deathcore/trash?

[JukaForever 758]

you talking about the post-hardcore scene? i actually come from the bordering post-hardcore/deathcore and deathmetal scene

and the reason why I stopped to listening mostly to all of it because all the unclean vocals sound...the same!

The songs sound the same! If you listen to 3 post hardcore albums in a row it would have felt like an 80 minute song basically.

But there are still bands that still stand out to me. I LOVE unclean vocals, just not the way NA post hardcore/deathcore bands do it.

Bring me the horizon's vocalist (isn't NA, and their style is not really post-hardcore anymore) used to have really unique uncleans.

Another unique vocal usage is Mejibray, which is why i love mejibray so much, Tsuzuku has amazing screams..very unique/dynamic style

 

I listened to my friend's collection (about 7 years ago as my last memory, I was curious about his music) so I don't have all the bands in my memory but I definitely remember Atreyu and Avenged Sevenfold only because they both have their band name start with the letter A and A7X is a slick abbreviation. They are listed as metalcore according to wiki so I guess that is what they and the other bands are...I guess....I am terrible with genres especially in rock so I cannot tell what is post-hardcore to hardcore. I only listened when he is around with his massive collection and we had Chemistry homework to do lol.

 

Yes, the bolded part is what I noticed a lot which is why I say bands that rely heavily on unclean vocals are just not dynamic enough for me to keep my interest in them. 

[Zeus 7997]

And A7X is a perfect example of what happens when someone doesn't do harsh vocals properly.

[Archaic 14]

I listened to my friend's collection (about 7 years ago as my last memory, I was curious about his music) so I don't have all the bands in my memory but I definitely remember Atreyu and Avenged Sevenfold only because they both have their band name start with the letter A and A7X is a slick abbreviation. They are listed as metalcore according to wiki so I guess that is what they and the other bands are...I guess....I am terrible with genres especially in rock so I cannot tell what is post-hardcore to hardcore. I only listened when he is around with his massive collection and we had Chemistry homework to do lol.

 

Yes, the bolded part is what I noticed a lot which is why I say bands that rely heavily on unclean vocals are just not dynamic enough for me to keep my interest in them. 

 

I used to listen to A7X around the time when they were post-hardcore, now they're just metal lol. I don't listen to A7X anymore,

but it's not because they shifted genre. I used to listen to Atreyu long ago too, I simply fell out of the metal scene I think...

You should listen to the band Thousand Years of Plagues that blackdoll suggested, it's a generic band that may have a good vocalist, but not using what he has, the

music is monotonous, I can sleep to it lol, and sounds like every other band in the scene right now.

[Archaic 14]

^their are some unique bands. no one does screams like a thousand years of plagues. not that i heard at least. he sounds like a alien 

I can actually do high screams like that band lol.

if you're looking for a better band, try The Devil Wears Prada (old songs), the screams are better, music more creative

but in the end it doesn't really appeal to me (at least not anymore). I also hate it when japanese bands try to copy

post hardcore bands like this, it pisses me off so much.

[Augie1995 325]

If I can drop my two cents here:

 

The only Vk bands that can do heavy screams are(were): Hiro (Nokubura), Akane(D.I.D), Juri(DELUHI), and that's about it.

 

As for non-VK, there are a lot of bands in the "metal" genre that really like to scream but I don't like it too much. I only like my heavy vocals to be used throughout the entire song when i'm listening to some deathcore, black metal, stuff like that (such as Humanity's Last Breath). When bands like Born of Osiris do heavy vocals in every single song throughout the whole length of their songs, even with a second vocalist doing an even higher pitched scream than the lead vocalist, I get annoyed.

 

The one band that is an exception of such event is Between the Buried and Me and that's because in my eyes they are legends and the heavy vocals are none that I have heard before. Not only that, but BTBAM at least include some clean vocals and when Tommy Rogers brings in that clean voice of his, I melt... and the song gets exponentially better than it already was. However, I only really like heavy screams when they are done right, it doesn't matter if they're not the most professional heavy vocals (most of them sound better than all in the VK scene), as long as they're done right. Like in the band Monuments or Periphery, where they are filtered together with clean and heavy and each one makes an impact on the song with the duality of them both, that's when they're good.

 

The one band that has to be preached is a recent band called Akeldama who just released their first debut album in the summer of 2013. The guys are chill and all and they like my posts on facebook, but that's besides the point. The heavy vocals are really good and well executed, but what makes them better is the fact that they're mixed in with clean vocals and since it's two vocalists, the contrast is huge. Andrew Zink, the one who does the clean vocals, has a majestic voice that hits the high notes almost as good as the man with the voice of a thousand angels, Ashe O'Hara. Mix those high, clean notes with some heavy vocals and you've got some contrasting sounds that work beyond belief.

 

Some mentioned bands:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wq4LbkHbWVc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUltTV3t4OM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2K4O4JmqpE

[blackdoll 907]

I can actually do high screams like that band lol.

if you're looking for a better band, try The Devil Wears Prada (old songs), the screams are better, music more creative

 

sorry dude they are good but A Thousand Years Of Plagues is just better. and for me brutal deathcore is love when i find em. with the generic comment, what genre isn't generic? 

 

[Pandabear 414]

I'm just going to jump in and say none of the bands mentioned earlier are post-hardcore. Atreyu is metalcore with vocals heavily influenced by hardcore, early Ax7 was also metalcore before they went alternative metal/hardrock. And devil wears prada is also metalcore, although their ZOMBIE EP had some deathcore influenced vocals. I'm not really familiar their earlier work, but everything from ZOMBIE EP upwards is amazing. Heavy, melodic and creative. There's a lot of interesting riffs, cool synths, brutal vox balanced by melodic cleans and sick drumming.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejMB0oYWYok

 

Seeing as TDWP is metalcore and a thousands years of plague is deathcore I feel it's unfair to compare the two.  I liked what I heard from a thousands years, but  I honestly wouldn't call them original or creative by any means. At least not from that one song. There are a lot more creative/brutal bands in the deathcore scene.

 

I can't say I share the same sentimentality with people who say all the bands in the core scene sound the same or are generic because there are a heap doing really creative and interesting things. There are some fantastic ones too. I feel like most ppl who say the aforementioned statement aren't listening to the right bands or maybe just haven't realized the scene isn't for them. If you go in expecting not to hear chugging, double bass, growls and perhaps melodic cleans, than your simply setting yourself up for a fall. Those are trademarks of the genre. Some people get so caught up in these details they fail to see when a band uses these elements in a new original way or when the band does come with something unique. It's like going to listen to rap and then railing on it because it has beats or rapping ,or complaining about rock music because it contains electric guitars.

 

 And if you want dynamics in your vocals, death metal and deathcore are probably not the genres to be looking at. It might be harder for someone who's new to those scene's to distinguish between each band's vocalists, but there are small and huge differences between vocalists depending on the band. Metalcore would probably be a better place for more dynamic vocals as the growls and screams vary more in style and most of those bands also implement melodic cleans, which has been done to death, but can be amazing with a proper band and singer. 

 

The good thing about the generic bands that did pop up after the core thing became popular was that it forced other established and up-incoming bands to be more creative in order to set themselves apart. And being generic in of itself isn't a bad thing. There are bands that are not original by any means, but they play damn good music. I enjoy a lot of bands from different genres that could be considered "generic", but they make good music so I don't really care if they're not the most creative or original band in the world.

[JukaForever 758]

 

I'm just going to jump in and say none of the bands mentioned earlier are post-hardcore. Atreyu is metalcore with vocals heavily influenced by hardcore, early Ax7 was also metalcore before they went alternative metal/hardrock. And devil wears prada is also metalcore, although their ZOMBIE EP had some deathcore influenced vocals. I'm not really familiar their earlier work, but everything from ZOMBIE EP upwards is amazing. Heavy, melodic and creative. There's a lot of interesting riffs, cool synths, brutal vox balanced by melodic cleans and sick drumming.

 

Seeing as TDWP is metalcore and a thousands years of plague is deathcore I feel it's unfair to compare the two.  I liked what I heard from a thousands years, but  I honestly wouldn't call them original or creative by any means. At least not from that one song. There are a lot more creative/brutal bands in the deathcore scene.

 

I can't say I share the same sentimentality with people who say all the bands in the core scene sound the same or are generic because there are a heap doing really creative and interesting things. There are some fantastic ones too. I feel like most ppl who say the aforementioned statement aren't listening to the right bands or maybe just haven't realized the scene isn't for them. If you go in expecting not to hear chugging, double bass, growls and perhaps melodic cleans, than your simply setting yourself up for a fall. Those are trademarks of the genre. Some people get so caught up in these details they fail to see when a band uses these elements in a new original way or when the band does come with something unique. It's like going to listen to rap and then railing on it because it has beats or rapping ,or complaining about rock music because it contains electric guitars.

 

 And if you want dynamics in your vocals, death metal and deathcore are probably not the genres to be looking at. It might be harder for someone who's new to those scene's to distinguish between each band's vocalists, but there are small and huge differences between vocalists depending on the band. Metalcore would probably be a better place for more dynamic vocals as the growls and screams vary more in style and most of those bands also implement melodic cleans, which has been done to death, but can be amazing with a proper band and singer. 

 

The good thing about the generic bands that did pop up after the core thing became popular was that it forced other established and up-incoming bands to be more creative in order to set themselves apart. And being generic in of itself isn't a bad thing. There are bands that are not original by any means, but they play damn good music. I enjoy a lot of bands from different genres that could be considered "generic", but they make good music so I don't really care if they're not the most creative or original band in the world.

 

 

I have nothing bad to say about the instrumentals. If the vocals doesn't click with my taste, I tend to give up the band no matter how good the instrumentals are. The strong rhythm and intricate guitar play is what got me hooked in the first place, now I just need good vocals at the same time. 

 

Rap and beats are the only essential parts of rap music, that was a terrible analogy IMO as I can't say the same for metal which have varying vocals techniques/styles. And no, RnB or other forms of singing is not rap, it's only there to make a smoother sounding song or for a sing-along sake. Hell, an MC rapping acapella for the whole album would still be rap music. I am not sure if metal is still the same without instrumentals....

 

To be clear, I didn't look into those genres to look for dynamic vocals, instead I grew out of them and now search for more interesting bands that suits my taste.

 

IDK what a generic band is? Is that another genre?

[relentless 254]

 

 

Seeing as TDWP is metalcore and a thousands years of plague is deathcore I feel it's unfair to compare the two.  I liked what I heard from a thousands years, but  I honestly wouldn't call them original or creative by any means. At least not from that one song. There are a lot more creative/brutal bands in the deathcore scene.

 

Agreed. Within "Deathcore" what Thousands Years of Plague is doing is nothing different than what Whitechapel, The Red Chord, The Acacia Strain, and Chelsea Grin are doing.

[blackdoll 907]

 

I'm just going to jump in and say none of the bands mentioned earlier are post-hardcore. Atreyu is metalcore with vocals heavily influenced by hardcore, early Ax7 was also metalcore before they went alternative metal/hardrock. And devil wears prada is also metalcore, although their ZOMBIE EP had some deathcore influenced vocals. I'm not really familiar their earlier work, but everything from ZOMBIE EP upwards is amazing. Heavy, melodic and creative. There's a lot of interesting riffs, cool synths, brutal vox balanced by melodic cleans and sick drumming.

 

Seeing as TDWP is metalcore and a thousands years of plague is deathcore I feel it's unfair to compare the two.  I liked what I heard from a thousands years, but  I honestly wouldn't call them original or creative by any means. At least not from that one song. There are a lot more creative/brutal bands in the deathcore scene.

no you miss understand i never was talking about the screams being different, not the instrumental and my reply was to someone who i think mention deathcore as the vocals all sounding the same. and screams are screams so i thinks it is ok to compare i mean they did sound similar.

 these are my top deathcore bands, i think are creative/different. 

 

 

[blackdoll 907]

outside vk is good too

 

 

http://youtu.be/cgf6Zt8xils

[blackdoll 907]

The only guys i can think think of as wannabes is -oz- (a really weak of that kind of vocals) and deluhi (like he wants to be badass and powerful but it sounds pathetic). other they are trying to be anything i thing except vk, which is freedom. but the only way to figure out where the uncleans come from is to ask them their self. awoi's guy said he doesn't really care about technique in a Q&A.

[Zeus 7997]

The only guys i can think think of as wannabes is -oz- (a really weak of that kind of vocals) and deluhi (like he wants to be badass and powerful but it sounds pathetic). other they are trying to be anything i thing except vk, which is freedom. but the only way to figure out where the uncleans come from is to ask them their self. awoi's guy said he doesn't really care about technique in a Q&A.

 

There's only one -OZ- I know about and that vocalist can definitely do harsh vocals. Are we talking about the same band? We can't be talking about the same band.