Visual Kei in and outside of Japan

[whitegrey 115]

quite an interesting topic - i think I'll follow this one

my experience with Visual Kei;

first (you can see it as a statement) -> I (still) don't really get it…

I don't get the concept, I don't know what it is all about - like what's the "message" behind it…

At some point's I'm like; oh - maybe I get it; but do they really mean it ?!?

But to be honest - japanese music is not very "deep" in general (as a whole, even with indies) - but that's like a "problem" of the society there.

In general I see Visual Kei more as a type of style and behavior not so much as a "genre" in terms of the music itself;

the music style of Visual Kei artists ranges from pop to metal and there are so many (sub-)genres that it's impossible to put into a category…

Nowadays I see it targeted towards young people - like teenagers, most of the time female ones… Maybe that was different in the "early era" (X-Japan…) but that's how I see it now. Interestingly there are differences - artists like Versailles and Luna Sea have more grown-ups in their audience in my experience… with oshare it's like the opposite - a very young fanbase.

But ok - back to the topic…

Been to Tokyo twice now - dwelling into the vibrant livehouse-scene of the town - not Visual Rock but Indie-Rock (Shimokitazawa, Shibuya, Shinjuku…). And from my point of view - Visual Rock is not really "visible" in your normal daily life there - you have to take a closer look to notice this stuff. It is only a small part of the whole music scene. I ran across Visus (real japanese ones) only once in like 5 weeks - you usually only see them when there are concerts or at certain meeting points. But it's totally not the norm to see them on the street… Lolitas - jep, those are a more common sight.

If I may use a comparison: "everybody reads manga on their way to work at subway in japan" -> nope - not fu*ing true… you see "more" people reading manga - compared to people who read comics here in the west. And you see "older" people reading manga (because they have a much broader range of topics in the manga format) -> but it's still far away from "everybody"… always makes me angry if people tell me so - especially if they were not there themselves but take it as granted. There's so many wrong information out on japan and japanese culture - on many many topics… I can just encourage people to go to japan to get first-hand impressions on their own about how this country really works (ok - short holidays won't do it - but better then just "dreaming" about japan with a whole lot of wrong expectations).

I'm organizing and promoting japanese concerts here in Europe in my home-country for some time now (more then 50% are Visual Kei artists at the moment)… so I have a few insights. But as stated above; I still don't get Visual Kei… it's just that there is a certain demand for this over here so I'm doing it just because nobody else is doing it right now. Maybe I'll drop it soon and put my focus more towards Indies - i don't know… Working with Visual Kei artists (and their management) has it's very own rules (some of them unwritten but certainly there)… sometimes this stuff can be pretty buggy/exhausting - same goes for the fans (but it's always different - some people are very nice, others are like very big-headed and so on)…

[Number Girl 48]

Reading the OP and some of the responses has been quite interesting, thank you! Not that I was completely unaware of the stark differences in terms of perceptions that exist between foreign visual kei fans vs. Japanese visual kei fans, but it is always good to read first hand experiences.

I think it's very hilarious a lot of self-proclaimed "hardcore" foreign VK fans know so little about the artists, scene, and history of what they love so much.

Over the past few years, I've noticed weebee media outlets and English "J-Rock" websites/blogs contributes a lot the ignorance and misconceptions. For one most of them just advertise visual kei bands - and usually only certain kinds of visual kei bands (usually leaving out ones probably deemed "too old" or don't fit recent fads and trends). Second, I've seen articles - supposedly written by paid, professional Japanese-reading journalists stating things like visual kei styles and music are completely unique to Japanese culture and many aspects of visual kei (such as cross-dressing) are common in average Japan, visual kei bands are embraced by average Japanese people, and Mana invented, etc. So if that is all newbies have to go by in their search for knowledge I can see why most of them are clueless.

[The Libertine 2]

A) LOL. The OP was scouted as a host?! That's just hilarious. Anyway, my hatred for host/snack bars.. Japan has shit night life. In my small 'city' (apart from izakaya and other old people places...) there is like 1 decent place to get a 'cheap' drink and actually dance or anything.. while there is literally like 20,000 bazillion snack bars, host/hostess.. omg. You have to be careful you don't wander into th wrong place. It's awkward to have to leave after popping your head into a snack bar.. And as a gay man there's nothing worse than having to go to a snack bar with your coworkers and have 40 year old japanese woman in Kimonos flirt with you and make you shitty drinks. SMH.

Outside of Tokyo/really really big cities you never see anything/hear about VK never ever. Nor do I know a Japanese person who likes it.. or even knows of VK bands outside of SID, X Japan, and a few others.. And people's opinion of VK IS slightly associated with the host/ギャル男 culture. And on ギャル男.. definitely up there with my least least favorite styles for men ever. They think they're so tough and manly but they look like a bunch of sissy bitches.

C) Back on scene in Japan... I haven't been to TOO many concerts.. but my experiences were quite different at 2 I saw same week in December.. Saw BUCK-TICK for day in question... and the audience was the most pleasant normal looking bunch! Mostly old guard fans who've liked them for 20 years who are freaking awesome and some even brought their kids! Also a good mix of younger people (but thankfully almost nobody under 18!). Also B-T is a long term not VK associated band so much despite having influenced the scene quite strongly. The worst show surprisingly was 9goats/amber gris concert. I love 9goats to death and think amber gris is really good band too.. but the fans at the show made me want to facepalm. A bunch of overdressed (not VK overdressed.. like fur and pearls... maybe dressed to meet their husband?!) girls who were extremely standoffish and just screamed 'temari temari temari' during the whole amber gris concert. BTW Ryo from 9goats is smex and a god... but if I saw him walking down the street I would go "HOST!!!"

D) someone hit the nail on the head with English education in Japan before... it's so sad!!! I cry!

[*りりこ* 14]

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This song is almost like the band is mocking it's foreign fans. I don't really think most SuG fans catch that with this song. (Seriously fans of most PSC bands are the most delusional.) The song is directly asking "Why don't you have more fun?" and "Do you hate the domestic?" and clearly quotes phrases and terms used by most weebees. Even the title. The whole song is almost like it's shouting "HEY. WHY ARE YOU LISTENING TO THIS WHEN YOU COULD BE LISTENING TO MUSIC FROM YOUR OWN COUNTRY AND GOING OUT AND HAVING FUN AT REAL LIVE SHOWS AND ACTUALLY BE A PART OF SOMETHING INSTEAD OF OBSERVING FROM AFAR?" Ahahaha.

This anti-globalisation concept is ridicolous in 2000s. Do they think we should like only things from our *native* country? They should thank overseas fans to support them by buying CDs and so on instead of mocking them. Thanks god I don't like them anymore since ages and not for this.

Regarding fashion, many people here in Europe dress up visual kei just to show they are "true" fans and better than the other ones. I find it pretty stupid because everyone is free to choose how to dress despite the music they listen to... I personally wore VK fashion until I realised I didn't like it on me (2 years ago) and I am really proud now to wear gyaru/fashionable clothes which I really like on me and choose by myself.

[sai 868]

Fun example for this thread:

I was just doing some sightseeing when I ran into two Japanese guys who were taking their pictures separately, so my dad asked them if he should make a photo of them together, to which they thanked him and handed him their camera. I took a photo with them as well and then my mother felt like telling them that I like Japanese music, so I just replied with "yeah, I love some of your bands". I gave LUNA SEA and BUCK-TICK as examples, and one of the two knew the name LUNA SEA, but BUCK-TICK didn't ring any bells.

[Aya 91]

Wow... this thread is really something. And I know it's kind of old, but I wanted to add my take on things.

In Japan, Visual Kei isn't a lifestyle. That's why people don't dress up and look 'visual' in their everyday lives (I'm talking about both musicians and fans). Visual kei is a means to an end - a style, a fashion, a look that will draw attention to an endeavor (usually music, in this case).

On the other hand, there are SOME foreign visual kei fans that consider it a lifestyle. Thus, they try to emulate the fashion in their everyday lives. Is this wrong of them? Nope. And I don't think it's a "misinterpretation of visual kei" either. They're putting their own spin on things in their own personal lives, which is okay. It doesn't change what visual kei actually is.

Visual kei and its popularity. That's a difficult one. Yes, I agree that many foreign fans don't understand the status of visual kei in Japan. They greatly overestimate its reach and popularity. However, I think a lot of people (to a lesser degree) underestimate its reach and popularity too.

One of the biggest misconceptions I've found (including things a lot of people have said in this thread) is that a lot of bands have larger fanbases online and in foreign communities than they do in Japan. This is simply untrue.

For every one foreign fan... there's many more Japanese fans. I'm NOT saying that visual kei is super duper popular and loved by everyone because it's NOT, far from it. But it seems like a lot of people think visual kei fans are nearly non-existent in Japan and that's far from the case. Visual kei has a much larger fanbase among Japanese people than foreigner people.

So, where are all the Japanese fans? Most of them don't stand up, don't speak out. That doesn't make them any less of a fan or someone to be discounted. In fact, that's Japanese (Eastern) nature. On the other hand, we foreign (Western) fans are loud and much more visible. That's our nature. That doesn't mean we outnumber the Japanese fans. We don't.

So, while it's ridiculous and incorrect to say that visual kei is super popular and all the bands are living the high life (because 95% of them are NOT). It's also just as ridiculous and incorrect to say that foreign fans outnumber Japanese fans.... or that visual kei is more popular outside of Japan than inside.

About the SuG song.... again, interpretation is everything. I don't see them mocking their foreign fans. The song isn't quoting phrases and terms used by weeaboos. Those are Japanese terms used in fashion and youth culture. It's directed at foreigners who are obsessed with these things. Sure, some SuG fans are like that.... but why is it okay for foreign fans to mock them and an insult if SuG does it? That's a bit hypocritical, no?

And on a side note, Reizoko & Arithmetica made some comments about English teachers not speaking Japanese. The Japanese companies prefer that. They don't want the person they've hired to speak Japanese, they only want them to speak English with the students. Most people are hired as an ASSISTANT teacher. There's also a Japanese English teacher and they work together to teach the class.

And yes, their system of learning English is TERRIBLE. I've talked with so many people who've taught in Japan and they've all said the same thing LoL.... it's *really* bad. But, that's just how it has been set-up. And they don't question or try to change things in Japan, so it's going to stay that way.

[ficsci 50]

On the other hand, there are SOME foreign visual kei fans that consider it a lifestyle. Thus, they try to emulate the fashion in their everyday lives.

Thank you for writing this down eloquently, but I think this is exactly the point where a few people (although perhaps not all) went to crazy town.