Discussion of the Week #2 (2011/11/20)

[Champ213 1858]

The Discussion of the Week!

How it works:

- Each sunday a staff member will start a thread with a new music-related question. They can range from broad to specific, but they are usually more in-depth than just asking for your favourite band.

- The discussion will be featured as announcement on the front page to get as many people involved as possible.

- People should put some effort into their posts, ie. not just write a few words and leave, or quote a sentence from a previous poster without adding anything to it. At least 2-3 well-worded sentences are not too much to ask.

- Other than that it's just like a normal discussion: you can discuss posts made by other users, but try to stay on topic and, of course, be civil.

The thread will stay open even after the week has passed, so the discussion can continue, but it will be replaced in the announcement center by the next featured question.

(Btw: you can also submit questions for the Discussion of the Week by sending them to any staff member.)

Got it? So here's the new question:

How much do you care about lyrics? Do extremely stupid lyrics turn you off from a song, and would you listen to songs with lyrics that strongly go against your ethical/political/religious/etc world view?

[guitar.chic92 1]

I care very much about lyrics. When I first listen to a song, I mostly judge it based on how it sounds, (because I can never tell what the vocalist is saying), but the words I look up will either make me love the song more, or make me wish I didn't even enjoy the song in the first place. The lyrics should enhance the images/emotions that the music creates and vice versa.

Extremely stupid lyrics will occasionally make me like a song just to laugh at it, but usually the dumbtardedness causes an involuntary facepalm and, if they're consistently moronic, avoidance of the entire band.

There are numerous songs I absolutely cannot bear listening to because of their world view. Misogyny/racism/putting-down-a-group-for-no-freakin'-reason never fails to send me into a flying rage; and religious songs, (Abrahamic religions, specifically), tend to get a knee-jerk reaction out of me -- which probably stems from being an atheist in the Bible Belt -- so those are avoided.

Basically: I love music and words above all else, so both have to appeal to me for me to like a song.

[Jigsaw9 6783]

Good question!

If the song is in a foreign language that I don't know, then I don't care about lyrics at all. If the music is good it's good enough for me. Sometimes I look up translations but if the lyrics turn out to be pretty stupid/simplistic I don't really mind, since I won't remember much of it anyway next time when listening. xD

However, if the song is in a language I do understand, then it's a bit more complicated. xD Stupid lyrics tend to put me off only in rock/metal music, but in pop I'm usually totally okay with them (sometimes it adds to the mood/style of the song). As for my world view, I'm okay with almost everything if it's not too political (like extreme Rightist for example, ugh), like I can blast some Slipknot even without agreeing that "people equal shit."

[TheBistroButcher666 228]

I'm not that into lyrics to be honest and that's why I like a lot of music in other languages. The message is usually lost on me anyway hahahaha. However I believe my lack of interest in lyrics is because I can't relate to most of it. Where are the songs about white upper middle class America working their mundane white collar office job counting beans and filing corporate taxes? 

Political? Not interested because it's usually about how I'm oppressed by THE MAN but I'm from a America. Perhaps if I lived in a country with a far more corrupt government I might be able to relate but I don't. Religious? Well I'm not religious so there you go. Redneck country music that rambles on about their truck, BBQs, NASCAR or God makes me want to punch people. The most common themes found in lyrics for most popular music is very off putting for me.

However, I really just prefer fantasy themed lyrics, the type that tells a story. Bands like Kamelot, Blind Guardian and even Rhapsody I enjoy their lyrics. Even if it's incredibly cheesy it's fun and not full of shit.

I'm posting from my phone my bad if I screw up grammar and whatever

[Peace Heavy mk II 7200]

This is kind of a tough question for me. On the one hand, I barely even hear lyrics (even in English). Sure, I hear the vocalist, but I think in terms of pitch rather than ~meaning~ when listening to a song for the first few times. I guess this is because of Japanese music: I'm used to only hearing garbled sounds that end in vowels that flow in a rhythmic (or arrhythmic) pattern that somehow sounds nice.

After those first few listens, however, I do start to pay attention to the words. I'd say more often than not I don't really dote on what the song is saying unless it is completely stupid (see also: Dir en Grey's songs that are as many bad words in English Kyo could remember, System of a Down, Mindless Self Indulgence, most metal-core that has clean vocals that make me wish they were screaming so I can't understand how stupid their lyrics are, etc etc). A lot of radio-friendly songs have stupid lyrics, but they aren't as appalling to me as they are to everyone else whose like "EWW THE RADIO I ONLY LISTEN TO GOOD MUSIC." In fact, their badness / trashiness is makes the experience all the more entertaining. "Your daddy must be a drug dealer / Why? / 'Cuz you dope!" I have a hard spot for songs that spell, too. Of course, there are songs in English whose lyrics I find to be really pretty. Some examples include 30 Seconds to Mars' "Night of the Hunter," AFI's "Torch Song," a lot of HIM's soppy lyrics (I guess pointing out which aren't soppy would be a shorter list), and a few others that I cannot remember because I just woke up.

The above paragraph more or less only applies to music in English (note: not occidental music). Gradually my Japanese is becoming more and more substantial and I am slowly picking up on words here and there. I'm no where good enough to be able to translate most songs, but I can figure out the gist of things if I have the written lyrics in front of me. Once I do get the point of being able to translate, I'm sure I'll realize how dumb most VK songs are. Then I'll seppuku

As for the world view part, it really depends. I know that Epica's latest album was about communism and freedom and all that good stuff, but that never really stopped me from enjoying their music even if I am not in favor of a communist system of government. I'm not really big on anti-religious lyrics, so that's why I never bother to look up black metal lyrics if I do happen to like a song of that genre every once and a while because I feel like that would ruin the experience for me. I guess the offensiveness really depends on how srsbsns the band is. Take that song some country guy wrote write after 9/11 : something about putting a boot up the ass of terrorists? Ridiculous, over zealous, patriotic lyrics whose odor of 'Murika drives me away from ever listening to that, and the fact that he was drop-dead serious makes it all the more unbearable. A counter example would be Rin's "A. Hitlor." Pseudo-sorta-not-really old-school naziploitation themed rush song from their first album that has lyrics about following an ideology. Aside from spelling out H-i-t-l-e-r (correctly, unlike the title) , there really aren't any other hints about Naziism in the song that I should get all huffy over. Because they weren't being serious in the least, I do not find that to be offensive. That doesn't mean a band can make music about raping children and then follow it up with a statement saying "LOL JK WE WERE KIDDING WWWWWW" and I'd be cool with it. There is a distinct line between trying to be edgy and it doesn't work, and being sick.

[Zeus 7997]

If I were asked this question a few years ago I would have answered: absolutely. Nowadays I'm not so sure.

One of the reasons for my descent into the Japanese music scene was because I could not stand the music that was popular where I lived, which was fraught with gangsta-rap, misoygnistic lyrics, more lyrics about love and loss, betrayal, sadness, etc. Pretty much the typical fare that teenagers would listen to and "connect" with. After listening to Japanese music for years and then branching off into music from other countries around the world I can finally be honest with the world and say that I have no fucking idea what my favorite Japanese artists sing about. It turns out that I can really care less about that. My favorite song could be about a constipated monkey and a giraffe for all I care and I wouldn't even know it. I just like the way Japanese words sound and flow when used within a musical context. The answer to my question then would be that the importance of lyrics vary to me. If it's in a language that I do not understand I do not care about the content of the lyrics because I verbally register nothing. If I look up the lyrics later and find them to be stupid, I'll still listen to the song because when it comes to Japanese music, lyrics are just another instrument.

If it's in a language that I do understand then it's different. When I listen to the music, the lyrics aren't an instrument anymore. It's the focus of the musical piece. I register an actual message in my mind when I hear it, which is why I cannot stand genres like mainstream rap or trashy pop music. Childish lyrics turn me off more than lyrics with messages that I do not agree with. I can't stand lyrics that talk mostly about how great the lyricist is. Conversely, I can't stand lyrics that talk about how bad the lyricist has it. I can stand lyrics that deal with love and loss if they're well-done. The simple "SHE LEFT ME WHAT A BITCH" type of lyrics are a no-no. I have a burning hatred for patriotic songs due to the sheer wealth of them I've been subjected to these last few years (You love America? Pay your taxes please and thank you. Pay mine while you're at it). I also can't stand lyrics that fall back on cliches and is evident that the lyricist has nothing of importance to say. Lyricists that try to be edgy for the sake of being edgy generally tend to be different from lyricists that sing something countercultural and actually mean it. For example, Prussian Blue sung songs about "killing all dem niggrers". They actually believed in "white power" and neo-Naziism. I just found their lyrics to be both childish and stupid so I derived no enjoyment from them. Then there's lyricists that sing about doing heroin and masturbating on a wall before they end up hanging themselves (I'm looking at you Kyo). It's definitely out there but there's a difference between the two examples that I brought up that I cannot clearly articulate. I dislike the former, not the latter.

Other than that the lyrics can be cheesy as hell and talk about slaying dragons with Excalibur or riding on Odin's back to save Valhall and I wouldn't care. It's all good.

[ramrod 108]

i care 0% literally about lyrics. even english songs.

I like the song based around how it sounds and the overall composition, that is all.

Though if i hear funny lyrics about piss, or shit. then i like it more. so make it 2%

[LIDL 692]

yes, it is still important part for me.

Particularly Western music, in whatever language.

Not so much attention to Asian lyrics tbh, cos mostly it is written in

poorly or cheesy approach. Kinda dumbed down the whole thing for me.

Also, learning languages is one of my hobby.

So lyrics is a helpful part to know a word spelled correctly.

If i only want to hear just music, and how music arranged,

i would go with world music, classics or new age for that matter.

These genres have a better support to these kind of audiences.

Or else all these bands and groups and soloist would not bother translate their music into words.

To some artists it also a way to channel their stress or anything they feel.

It is a theraphy to some.

Plus singing along to a song is total fun,

no matter how bad your vocal are.

Even to instrumentals, we still hum the tunes along.

It is only natural proof.

[evilcoconut 109]

How much do you care about lyrics? Do extremely stupid lyrics turn you off from a song, and would you listen to songs with lyrics that strongly go against your ethical/political/religious/etc world view?

About 99% of the time I care absolutely nothing about lyrics. But, in a slightly different way than most perhaps. I would rather not understand them so that I can focus on the music. This is primarily why I listen to way more music in languages other than English. I like the vocal instrument, so I don't want to only listen to instrumental music, but I find that hearing words I fully understand distracts me from the overall appreciation of a song: vocals + music.

And yes, while I do have a working knowledge of Japanese and French, I have to really be paying attention to understand lyrics in a song and it's easy to tune it out. Much harder with English, which I'm fluent in. This is why I can't ever comprehend when people say they can't listen to music in x-language because they need to understand what they're singing about. It legit baffles me, lol.

[Marupinku 7]

I appreciate good lyrics, unfortunately almost no band has good lyrics. However, music for me is just about about the music. The lyrics can present an entirely different worldview, one that I even find abhorrent, but the music is still good. So I like the band.

If I were to ignore every band with shitty lyrics I could probably count the number of bands I listened to on two hands.

[miyuu 40]

I care very much about lyrics. When I first listen to a song, I mostly judge it based on how it sounds, (because I can never tell what the vocalist is saying), but the words I look up will either make me love the song more, or make me wish I didn't even enjoy the song in the first place. The lyrics should enhance the images/emotions that the music creates and vice versa.

Extremely stupid lyrics will occasionally make me like a song just to laugh at it, but usually the dumbtardedness causes an involuntary facepalm and, if they're consistently moronic, avoidance of the entire band.

Basically: I love music and words above all else, so both have to appeal to me for me to like a song.

⇈ basically this is exactly how i feel & do.

honestly apparently i do care about lyrics and .it's connected somehow to the previous discussion also.

in japanese i can't understand when i listen to a song except few phrases if i pay attention. but if i really like the song,

i end up looking the lyrics. the most i can relate to them or make me feel something, the most i end up liking the song.

i think this is the way i choose even favorite artists at the end with combination with music. and this is one of the reasons i can never like too much the majority of pop songs.

i think when you don't know a language well and you are learning it. discovering the meaning, emphasizes this emotion.

because in english songs i don't care so much or even at all most of the times.

of course i listen to a lot of music and not always pay attention in the lyrics.

other times i am really annoyed if i can't understand the lyrics to the song i like.i want to know what it says.

sometimes i get turn of if the lyrics are stupid. but i try to forget them , since i don't understand japanese is easy.

an example i remember with oz songs when he says stupid english . if i read the lyrics i am kinda annoyed when i listen to the song.or laugh and can't take it seriously. but i end up getting over it, try not to pay attention xD.

edit: the fact that i don't know well japanese not only emphasizes the emotion when you try to understand the lyrics to like them more,

but also maybe makes the lyrics look less cheesy or stupid. sometimes i think if i was japanese maybe i wouldn't like them.

[Cupcakes 55]

I don't really mind lyrics, since I mainly listen to music in languages I don't understand. But whenever I'm listening to something English/German, it only stops when in the lyrics they show that they're anti-gay people or sth.

Guess I'm just one of the less-caring people.

[Yasupon 18]

I agree with Jigsaw and Zess.

Being that I mainly listen to VK music, and the fact that my Japanese isn't good enough to understand everything they're saying on a feasible level, I can confidently say that I don't really care too much about the lyrics at all. Good music from any foreign language breaks the language barrier for foreign listeners and allows us to understand the music more on an emotional level; which I think is pretty wonderful. Besides, It's not very easy for me to find lyrics to the bands I listened to even if I tried.

[Number Girl 48]

Considering I don't understand most of the music I listen to, I suppose lyrics really don't matter to me that much in the grand scheme of things. However when I really like a song, I make an effort to try to find a translation if possible. When it comes to my favorite artists I like to know what they are trying to say or the point they are trying to make if anything at all. It's for the same reason I also like to read interviews and blog entries - I just like to get to know the artist more. Sometimes I've been disappointed and sometimes I've come to deeply appreciate a song even more than I did before because of lyrics.

For English music, I'm obviously a bit more sensitive about lyrics. I admit - and I blame my somewhat conservative background for this - that I do not like songs with excessive, pointless profanity. My "fuck-nigger-bitch-motherfucker-shitcunt-suckmydick" threshold is only so high even for songs just trying to be funny or ironic.

[ronluna 17]

most of the time, i listened to very complicated japanese lyrics with some simplified lyrics attached to it. no matter how complicated or simplified the lyrics are, when i like the music, i'll try to sing it repeatedly. about the lyrics' content or theme, i am attracted to a song with lyrics that i can relate. if you don't know the lyrics, you can watch the promotional video which helped me a lot to discover the meaning behind the song's lyrics.

[Seiji 156]

For me it totally depends on the type of music whether the lyrics are important or not.

Actually it's most important for me in ballads - I don't care so much about metal lyrics (except for Melodic Death Metal) - most Power Metal songs have got similar lyrics - all that fighting and power and swords and steel - srsly I don't care

When it comes to ballads the lyrics have to reach me. I'm not pleased with some "hey, I love so, so I've written that song" - lyrics, those have to be covered up with metaphors. The best lyrics are those where you get the real meaning after thinking about it... or those which are using really cute metaphors xD

When it comes to japanese songs I don't care that much about the lyrics - it may sound strange, but, for me, most of the songs are "instrumental songs" in the beginning - if I really like a song I'll try to understand the lyrics and - as my japanese is really bad - fail at it

After that I look up translations for the songs. They don't really influence my point of view concerning the song, it just changes the way I understand the songs and how I sing them for myself.

As I said, I see the voice as an instrument at first and even without knowing the translation I can tell whether it sounds good to me or not.

As translations are mostly vague I really don't let them influence my opinion.

[bonsaijodelfisch 328]

Do extremely stupid lyrics turn you off from a song

that might be one of the reasons why i mainly listen to japanese music.

as far as i can remember understanding the lyrics makes the song worse in like 90% of the cases.

that's because lyrics are most of the time just so utterly stupid and/or embarrassing that i can't stand actually listen to the music anymore.

(in any language that is, our japanese co-earthlings are in no way better on that frontline)

funny thing is, although i consider myself a pretty decent english speaker due to countless years of british and american movie/tv-series/pc-games consumption, there still is a major difference between listening to an english song or a song in my motherlanguage german.

whilst in a german song (well, or whatever your mothertongue is) the lyrics burn right onto your brain, no way to escape the epic stupidity of the vocalist, its a different story with english songs.

there is sort of an "actualy listen to those lyrics now"-Switch in the brain, that i perpetually try to keep switched OFF in order to avoid the verbal diarrhea of the singers.

(there are some triggers that force this switch on and indicate "this is gonna get baaad", like clean phrases that start with "baaaaabybaby" or the sort of...)

this is probably the one single reason i'm thankfull not to be a native english speaker, it must be the horror to be cannon fodder to some of those brainfarts.

obviously no need to worry about that in japanese, but still here you have to live with the fear of those awkward moments when you listen and think

"that sounds familiar, what is he... the heck? this supposed to be english???" had those quite a lot with gazette and -oz-

so the few cases of lyrics that i like are easily counted, there would be:

1. some that are just unique and interesting in their setting or concept

(i know it's the standard-example on any jrock-topic, but singing from the point of view of an about to be aborted fetus in "mazohyst.."? come on that's just plain cool! [edit] )

or the main portion

2. lyrics that are entertaining and/or tell a story, which are most likely to be found in hip-hop-ish or funpunkrock-ish songs, which are unfortunately not really that prominent on my hard-drive.

really black humor is a special bonus like this

OXBXBP4emhg

so yeah, while most of the time it is favorable to have a vocalist (instrumental tracks/bands have a tendency to get boring quite easily, exceptions have to be quite outstanding) understanding the lyrics most of the times pretty much kills it for me most of the time

EDIT: if the protagonists don't take themselves too seriously it can be creepy, cheesy, kitsch or whatever all the way, the mentioned slaying dragons, or a band that calls themselves sex machineguns opening their discography with a hymn on masturbation..., anything goes!

[TheBistroButcher666 228]

I blame my somewhat conservative background for this - that I do not like songs with excessive, pointless profanity. My "fuck-nigger-bitch-motherfucker-shitcunt-suckmydick" threshold is only so high even for songs just trying to be funny or ironic.

I wouldn't blame it on your conservative background, you just don't like trashy music I certainly don't like excessive swearing in music, every now and then is fine. It feels like a cheap way to try and feel edgy and appeal to privileged suburban 12 year olds who freak out hearing swearing.

[LIDL 692]

funny, i always think that most of the VK bands that mostly did dirty words for cool points

than Western bands.

I mean, just listen to 90% of TOXIC, man!

As far as cussing can go, i can deal with it if it fits with the context.

Say a song that having it's lyrics expressing some stress or depressed feelings.

It is only natural for someone irl to cuss often in this kind of situation.

So their listeners may able to relate with the song much better

and release their own stress by singing along,

than songs that doing it diplomatically or lulz poetic.

Though some of them just doing it for the lulz, despite the angry mood.

i.e this song

You just have to know the nature of the lyrics is all.

Which is why lyrics is important in most of non instrumental music.

[Number Girl 48]

Yeah, in certain contexts I don't mind profanity - or else I wouldn't still be listening to D'espairsRay, Dropkick Murphys, or anyone else.

My comment was more targeted at a lot of mainstream hip-hop/rap where every new song mostly consists of those same words just repeated over and over again, but in a different order each time and some other words thrown in there that rhyme.

[TheBistroButcher666 228]

A few swear words sprinkled here and there is fine, I just dislike excessive use of it. There's a 90s nu-metal band that name is just off the tip of my tongue but I can't for the life of me remember the name. But I remember this being a favorite among people in my middle school because of the over usage of the word fuck. I guess remembering every dumb kid in my school getting excited over swearing is what makes me cringe so hard when I think of music full of swearing.

Don't get the wrong idea about me, I'll listen to music with vulgar lyrics but they have to be well written. A bunch of HURHURHURFUCKFUCKFUCKDUHDERP is a big turn off.

funny, i always think that most of the VK bands that mostly did dirty words for cool points

than Western bands.

I mean, just listen to 90% of TOXIC, man!

True but it doesn't even sound like English most of the time and if I can't pick up on it I'm okay with it LOL

[Zeus 7997]

A few swear words sprinkled here and there is fine, I just dislike excessive use of it. There's a 90s nu-metal band that name is just off the tip of my tongue but I can't for the life of me remember the name. But I remember this being a favorite among people in my middle school because of the over usage of the word fuck. I guess remembering every dumb kid in my school getting excited over swearing is what makes me cringe so hard when I think of music full of swearing.

They're not nu-metal, but are you perhaps thinking of Rage Against The Machine?

dxk3c_SbWMg

[TheBistroButcher666 228]

A few swear words sprinkled here and there is fine, I just dislike excessive use of it. There's a 90s nu-metal band that name is just off the tip of my tongue but I can't for the life of me remember the name. But I remember this being a favorite among people in my middle school because of the over usage of the word fuck. I guess remembering every dumb kid in my school getting excited over swearing is what makes me cringe so hard when I think of music full of swearing.

They're not nu-metal, but are you perhaps thinking of Rage Against The Machine?

dxk3c_SbWMg

It might be them, I can't listen to it right now. I remember it was a not so well known nu-metal act but still made it to MTV since nu-metal was the thing back then. Maybe it was Mudvyane?

Rage Against The Machine though is another one of those political bands that makes me want to cringe, I remember it was just a bunch of privileged upper middle class suburban brats thinking they're being oppressed by THE MAN. I just role my eyes thinking get over yourself.

[Pandabear 414]

Hmmm I actually know quite a few rock/metal bands that constantly use the F Word in at least of their songs.

But back to the questions at hand

How much do you care about lyrics? Do extremely stupid lyrics turn you off from a song, and would you listen to songs with lyrics that strongly go against your ethical/political/religious/etc world view?

1. I do care about lyrics. Just like I care about the actual music. However music always comes first and there are a lot of bands out there who make great music, but have sub par or mediocre lyrics. So even though music will always come first, and sub par lyrics won't ruin a song for me, I respect bands who put as much effort into their lyrics as their music. Good songwriting serves to make songs even more awesome by adding weight, emotion and depth to the music. I believe this can range from honest simple lyrics to vivid poetic songwriting and use of complex wordplay, or syllabic patterns. I study poetry on a regular basis so I always enjoy a well written song or the occasional conceit or dactyl in a song. From this thread alone, I see a lot of people don't really seem to care for the lyrics in the music they listen to. Fortunately for me I enjoy all of the lyrics from the bands I listen to. Obviously some more than others, but to me they all have something unique to offer. Of course this all applies to songs I actually understand in my language. It doesn't really matter to me when listening to something foreign. The music does.

2. Stupid lyrics won't necessary turn me away from a song. If the music is good or somehow complements the songs I'll listen to it. However that being said I won't say any song I have on my hardrive or Ipod has stupid lyrics. Actually I may just be lucky and haven't come across a song with stupid lyrics....yet. I think I'm more likely to be turned off by a song with amazing lyrics and crap music. And I'm especially likely to be turned off by a song with crap music and crap lyrics.

3.I would listen to songs that go against my ethical/political/religious/worldview. In fact I pretty sure once in a while I do. I think it mostly because the bands that write lyrics that go against the masses or society do it for shock value, I'm fine with it. I don't think any band out there would actually advocate violence, or something shock value like. And I'm fine with bands like RATM. They're fun and again I like their music. I think the only real examples of music I wouldn't listen to are songs I actually first came to know about on the news. Stuff that bashes homosexuals, or is clearly intolerant of other peoples race or religious views. I mean stuff like that just promotes hate, ignorance and perverts music IMO.

[Glamour 4]

I find lyrics to be not so important versus the actually melody. I've heard good lyrics, bad, and lyrics that are confusing to understand and can be interpreted in more than one way (See: Rocket Man). Regardless of the lyrics, I will usually like the song if it's got a good melody. I don't believe there is any song that holds a good melody that I won't listen to because it goes against one of my views or something (I'm pretty lenient). Likewise, a song with good lyrics that holds a bad melody will be forgotten most likely.