Marketing of singles?

[Zeus 7997]

I got to thinking about this question while I was posting a reply in the Nightwish topic. It's obvious that when it comes to singles, the Japanese do it differently than a lot of other places in the world. Usually you find them releasing one or two singles before they release the album and the gap between the singles and the album can be large. In other places, usually there is a single released a few weeks before the album and then singles are pulled off of the album after it has been released. Which do you prefer/think is better and why?

[Champ213 1858]

I can't say I care much for singles at all. But realesing singles isn't very common among the non-japanese bands I listen to anyway. I'm fine with that, I can wait a few years until a new album is out.

Among the two models you mentioned I think I still prefer the western one. Why? I think it's just nice to have an album full of fresh songs, instead a compiltation of stuff that was released over the course of 2-3 years. It's also annoying if you already bought the singles, and the album only has 2 or 3 new songs.

If the singles come out after the album it's easier to decide if you want to pass up on them, or if you want to buy them for the b-sides (which I really only do in rare cases).

[Jigsaw9 6783]

Well, strictly speaking from my own (listener's) perspective, I prefer the Japanese model because it provides a more constant flow of releases. On the other hand, I dislike it from the point of view of the artists because it must be really hard to continuously come up with new material, instead of writing and perfecting songs for a year or two, and then put them on an album (plus 1-2 singles for extra promotion). I think we all experienced this, some bands (especially visual kei) going on and on, making more and more boring music (of course this has to do with individual people's taste too). It's a weird situation because what I experienced is usually bands' music gets better and more interesting as they progress in the Western model, while in Japan it's not that simple (of course there's a number of exceptions in both cases).

Anyway, I voted on the VK pattern, solely from a listener's perspective: I prefer it that way, but the other one would be better for artists' creativity. xD

[gyakutai 12]

Since I've started listening again to western music (especially industrial), I came up to the conclusion that Western marketing is definitely better because, as Champ said:

- Everything is cheaper = more $ for lives/merchandise

- I like getting an album with (almost) all new songs: in vk this almost never happens! Only AWAKE-evoke the urge- by DEATHGAZE had all new songs. I hate buying an album which is just a sort of compilation! It's a waste of money.

- The creativity is not THAT forced as in mainstream vk bands.

[CAT5 9075]

Well, to be honest, singles in general kinda annoy me. In many areas of Japanese music, there are no singles released. Sometimes, bands might releases a digital single or a free download of a new track; maybe even a PV to promote the album, but not a proper single. I much prefer bands/artists to release full bodies of work, as singles just seem like a ploy to milk fans for money in *most* cases (ESPECIALLY when they get ridiculous by creating several different versions of the single). However, I won't dismiss singles altogether. There are quite a few instances where I'd consider a single perfectly legitimate and even deserving of a purchase.

ANYWAYS...To entertain your question, zess:

In spite of my grievances, I prefer the Japanese way. With this method, the fans at least have something keep them busy in between albums and at the same time, it also gives them more to get excited about. In my opinion, releasing a single after the album is just too obvious of a marketing plow. Sure, feel free to make another PV after the album is out, but releasing a proper single would be silly in most cases.

[Aion 184]

In spite of my grievances, I prefer the Japanese way. With this method, the fans at least have something keep them busy in between albums and at the same time, it also gives them more to get excited about. In my opinion, releasing a single after the album is just too obvious of a marketing plow. Sure, feel free to make another PV after the album is out, but releasing a proper single would be silly in most cases.

Not agreeing. Ofcourse this applies when you're already familiar with the band, but mostly the band releases a new single to get new attention from new fans... You're not obliged to buy that single, as you already have that song so you can listen it all the time... When applying the Japanese system, you have to buy the single, because it's not available via another way...

[CAT5 9075]

When applying the Japanese system, you have to buy the single, because it's not available via another way...

um...not entirely true, unless you're referring to certain indie bands. Tons of Japanese singles are leak daily, so they're available for download D:

[Aion 184]

When applying the Japanese system, you have to buy the single, because it's not available via another way...

um...not entirely true, unless you're referring to certain indie bands. Tons of Japanese singles are leak daily, so they're available for download D:

explain this then:

In my opinion, releasing a single after the album is just too obvious of a marketing plow.

[CAT5 9075]

Aion...you're confusing me. That second quote was in reference to the western method D:

So...what exactly are you trying to say? XD

[MY BFF HEIDI 7]

as long as they have b-sides i don't care either way

i fucking love b-sides

[Aion 184]

Aion...you're confusing me. That second quote was in reference to the western method D:

So...what exactly are you trying to say? XD

Well, first of, you're saying that the western style is shitty because releasing singles after you already released them on album is for the money...

Then, you say the Japanese singles are available anywhere so you won't need to buy them...

So, shortly said, the western style sucks because you need to buy the singles even though they were released on an album before, and the Japanese style is better because you can download the singles before the album is out?

(it's sounds better in Dutch )

I'm solely looking at it in a legal (not downloading) way to say which way is better.

[doaseternity6 93]

as long as they have b-sides i don't care either way

i fucking love b-sides

This lol. I went with the Japanese way though because at least there's a good flow of music with that. As long as a band isn't releasing a gazillion singles and then what is essentially a compilation album afterwards its fine (and most bands don't imo.)

[CAT5 9075]

Aion, I'm a pirate. You know that. So of course, I'm not gonna exclude any illegal means of obtaining music. ;P

[Aion 184]

Aion, I'm a pirate. You know that. So of course, I'm not gonna exclude any illegal means of obtaining music. ;P

bEBbu-wkKrs

True, but then just say that it doesn't matter for you

For a pirate it doesn't matter

For a purchaser, the western way is better

For a band/production company, the Japanese way is better

=)

[LIDL 692]

I chose the Western systems.

All i say is this,

Singles is used for promotion tool because it usually sold at cheaper price.

And with that many people will afford Singles than albums.

Sometimes there is only good singles and crap album, so people can only

choose to purchase the singles CD or mp3, still can listen to their favourite song

without paying too much for unwanted filler tracks.

And that goes along with the Western systems, that after the album released

they can still promote the album to those who afford one

by making another singles from the album

but also helping/makes people who are on budget

still able to catch up with their favourite artists by getting the Singles CDs/mp3.

Which the VK systems (most of the time) does not supporting.

This two cents is for regular single, not maxi.

[CAT5 9075]

Aion, I'm a pirate. You know that. So of course, I'm not gonna exclude any illegal means of obtaining music. ;P

True, but then just say that it doesn't matter for you

For a pirate it doesn't matter

Not entirely true

I may be a pirate (hell, WE ALL ARE), but I still buy stuff (can't obtain everything illegally ya know). Which is why In my original comment, I mentioned that I don't really care for singles and that I PREFER FULL ALBUMS. 90% of the time, I'd buy albums over singles.

Anyways, I think we're derailing zess's thread a bit

[Ito 2438]

What I HATE is singles that are type A, type B, and Type C and there are like 5 songs. Now that shit is ALL marketing in attempt to make more money and it is dumb as hell...just release a mini-album for crying out loud.

That said, singles are alright, but really, when I am checking out new bands, I pretty much only download albums. I need to love a band to download a single. The only single I have ever bought was a Dir en grey cause you needed to buy one to meet Kyo....god, I was stupid then XD

[The Bread Wolf 231]

I like the Japanese way of single releases mainly because I admit that I get easily bored of a band that doesn't do anything. That's why I rarely listen to disbanded groups. Probably the case would be completely another if I lived in Japan and could go to gigs in the middle of waiting the next album.

But yeah, I also hate these type A, type B, type C, type D and type E releases. That's actually the only thing I hate about UNDER CODE. Kisaki is really sucking fans dry by releasing a dozen different types of one darn single and then you need to get them all to apply to some special gift. Like it wasn't difficult enough for westerns to get their hands on these releases, but then you have to buy them all and send the obis back to get a PV or a bonus song or something. That is just annoying.

[fitear1590 2414]

as long as they have b-sides i don't care either way

i fucking love b-sides

Pretty much this. I don't think any of the American bands I listen to really do singles with b-sides, but plenty of the UK ones do. And some of my favorite songs tend to be b-sides.

[TheBistroButcher666 228]

I prefer the Western method, from what I understand a band will record a batch a songs all at once then slowly release them all as singles while doing massive touring to promote the singles and sell merch. It may differ from band to band but whatever the case, I prefer the Western method. Releasing a single every month with two songs for a year and then at the end of the year release an album with all the single songs again but in two types, one with a DVD and a new song and the other type with two new songs but one of them is an SE. That gets old.

I know Japan isn't marketing this for Western fans and it's just some batty Japanese thing but my pocket book gets pretty annoyed with it.

However the benefit to the Japanese method is it keeps you hooked and interested, many of my favourite Western bands I tend to forget about them until new material is ready to come out. Especially when it takes more than a year or longer to release an album.

[Biopanda 2675]

I tend to like the Japanese method more. If I wanted to try out a new western band(legally), their album may be the only thing available if it is their first and just came out. With the Japanese method there is usually a few singles before their first album. I'd be much more likely to buy a single to try out a new band rather than spending a large amount of money to get their album before knowing if it will be worth it or not.

[Saaam-chan 50]

I kinda like the japanese method too... but I think that has just a commercial reason... XD ~

They just release much of singles with A B C sides that they can get more money... and maybe the fans talk more about it and share the stuff and keep talking over it...

I don't know...

Western styl ... is more easy I think... Wait some months/year... and get a new album... xD

[Pandabear 414]

I prefer western. The Japanese way gets boring and annoying after a band puts out like 3-4+ songs and then you get the album and there's not much newness to it. Plus I prefer quality over quantity.

I'd rather get an awesome album with like 10 songs, with maybe one song released as a single and maybe another one or two after the album release, then getting an album full of songs that have previously been released and are mediocre or suffer in quality and originality because a group or artist wanted to meet a quota of songs.

Another thing is that I don't buy singles. Not ever and never will. I go for the full length album. And if a Japanese band puts out a ton of singles, chances are I will only listen to 1 or 2 songs they put out and then just wait to hear the full album rather than continue listening to all the songs they put out. The only instance in the past when I've bought a single is when an band puts out a song I really like but its not on any album they've put out.

[madygrain 515]

As consumer I like the japanese method, but I's also a bit of a letdown when too many singles are released and we don't get that much new songs on albums. I am really impatient when it comes to music so the contiued flow of releases really suits me. I personally find Singles/maxi singles pre album with arranged/perfectioned versions in the LPs to be a perfect system: they keep releasing stuff but that does not keep that songs to feel rushed in comparison with the rest of the album.

But I thin multiple single versions must go. If they wnat to release 5 songs, don't do 4 types, do one single type EP. Please.

Also, regarding the piracy subjet, I also don't tend to buy singles unless I find them really compelling or really cheap. But if I liked the singles I will buy the album without hesitation.

[Peace Heavy mk II 7200]

TT_____TT That pirate song is going to stuck in my head for weeks now. WEEKS.

Anywho, I personally prefer the Japanese method because I suffer from illusions of grandeur and ignore important aspects of the music industry that play a large role in what people call "reality," like fiscal problems and so forth. Although albums do tend to be 5 old songs, 6 new songs, 2 instrumentals, I do think it's cool when bands actually rerecord songs to sound differently than their original versions. Take Malice Mizer for example: their top selling album was like 7 singles, yet some of the album versions sound pretty different from their singles (Illuminati especially). However, most bands now a days do not do that in the least. Like Holy Grail: Versailles could have fixed Kamijo's vocal trips in "Judicial Noir" (which apparently is a surprise A-Side now?), but instead they just copied and pasted the audio file onto the album's master tracklist. UNDER CODE is pretty good at doing this as well, but it is not exclusive to Versailles and Kisaki in anyway, shape, or form.

I think singles work well depending on how they're executed and delivered. For example, I like lots of B-sides, so the type A~D thing doesn't bother me. I don't really mind remixes a la Rentrer en Soi, but I feel like the B-sides shouldn't only be weird remixes like early Diru. They also work well if there is a drastic change of theme between them, like Malice Mizer again. I am not a fan of 1 track singles that end up only being used for a collection album, however. The only way I would justify buying them is if I really enjoy that band's music and I don't have any physical copies of the singles in question.

The Western concept doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Why would I buy a CD with only 1 or 2 tracks on it when I already have the album with the song I care about on it. I have a bit more to say about it, but I am going to be late for school.