Gays + Christianity

[ramrod 108]

In an attempt to bring some depth to this forum... Watch this. And Discuss.

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Any of you here in any of those positions? Do you agree / disagree?

Hope it enlightened some of you, helped even.

[robelibobban 2]

Interesting documentary, thank you for sharing.

Not sure if I should comment anything more on this, seeing as I'm an atheist and not gay. I hope more people will come to their senses, like the people in this documentary.

[Ito 2438]

I don't have the time to watch it right now, but I am honestly intrigued. I plan on watching it at as soon as I get a chance.

[Mei 276]

havent watched the documentary but...

everyone has the religion he/she simply wants, who can prohibit u what u believe in?.

imo, it goes beyond the fact i get laid with someone of my same sex or the opposite.

like, aren't gods so allmighty? will they care abt something so trivial?

anyway meh, i got no religion so im fine in my nest.

[robelibobban 2]

^To quote Christopher Hitchens “Why would God create so many homosexuals, only to torture and destroy them?”

[Peace Heavy mk II 7200]

Almost done with the first video. Jesus Christ, Protestants are scary.

[ginHigure 22]

Very interesting topic indeed..same reaction my parents got as those from the videos. Mom came a bit to her senses but dad is still hurt "lost of his dreams". Funny how my parents pulled all the bible said about gay/lesbian/bisexual people. I told them the bible did create a lot of fear and made things seem dangerous to the public, plus it persuaded them. They do not believe me on that. They do not believe that people used the bible as hate for black, segregation nor they believe that most animal species are gay.

I totally agree with the message this documentary has sent. I do believe that people do need to educate themselves before acting or reasoning things that do not make sense. There are always misunderstandings/misinterpretations of the bible. The bible is only a written told of society, the believe is inside everyone only and nothing else.

[ramrod 108]

I believe the sentiments expressed by the movie. Like half my entire family are redneck new zealand rugby players, and then the other half here, are all christian pastors. And growing up christian, you are made to believe it is wrong. Which is pretty bad, i used to always fear and sometimes cry that i would end up in hell etc. But then why would god send you to hell for something so trivial.. especially since it doesnt explicitly refer to homosexuality in the bible... it's a very grey book, it is not black and white at all. And it takes alot of these people to have a gay child to change their mind set. It took my family. (dad was easy, mum was more a year) a while to become accustomed to that fact. Especially when all our friends are basically christian and have opinions. The thing that surprises me and ensures i don't really care what they think is just by looking at their behaviour...they can be the most hypocritical group on individuals you will meet... they are taught not to judge, yet that is exactly what they do. Not to mention they pick and chose the verses they focus on (like man on man sex) as opposed to putting two crops in the same hole, and eating rabbit....among other things. Alot of people have this mindset "Ohhh...i don't mind gay people"..but what they REALLY mean is "I dont mind gay people...as long as it isnt in my family". Then once they have one in their family...it forces them to confront their bigotry, issues, and beliefs on the topic...and most of them, realise that gays are no different to normal people. We have the same dreams, desires and values. And aren't here to turn the whole world gay.

[ginHigure 22]

"I dont mind gay people...as long as it isnt in my family". Then once they have one in their family...it forces them to confront their bigotry, issues, and beliefs on the topic...and most of them, realise that gays are no different to normal people. We have the same dreams, desires and values. And aren't here to turn the whole world gay.

Amen!!!!

[LIDL 692]

umm, what have been shown here does not represent all Christians.

The fact is there is also Christians who are sincerely accepting,

whether their family member or not.

What have been shown here ain't Christianity, these are politicized.

Just the same like another politicized doctrines with religions,

say, Jewish VS Moslem that has been going on for as far as i know.

Either way, i don't really mind these fundamentalists.

I mean, most people think the Westboro Baptist Church is the worst, but I think they actually help gay rights. Please don't misunderstand this, I think they're terrible people. But when straight people see them picketing funerals, it shows that gays are hated and maybe need laws to protect them. The ones we have to worry about are the polite people who say things like, "Oh, we love gays. Gay people are God's children too! But being gay is a mental illness and a sin, and we're only trying to help them become normal. We hate the sin, but love the sinner" Conservative churches and the Republican party spread awful lies about gays, but under a cover of flowery language and smiles. Give me the naked hate anytime...as nobody can deny it.

[ramrod 108]

Of course it is not representative of all christians.

just most.

Westboro isnt in all of the videos, just like one or two. the rest are every day, normal churches...but share similar (but less extreme) views. So i would say it is very relevant.

[Peace Heavy mk II 7200]

I watched all of the videos, but I don't really have the time to write about them at the moment. I will say, though, that it was a powerful story that I found a lot of parts to be relate-able to and a lot of parts reminded me of my family. I also felt like crying throughout a lot of parts of it, but I don't want my reaction to be one big sob story.

[bakteeri 7]

The christian god is the most evil and sadistic asshole that human has ever written about. So it's only logical that his most loyal followers are like that too.

Of course not all christians are like that. Actually, most "christians" aren't really christians at all. They're just slaves of pointless old customs who keep up a dying faith. Victims of brainswashing by parents who suffered the same kind of gullible raising. "This and that is wrong because a 2000 year old book says so!". Sigh. They pick up stuff from the bible, here and there, things they like and can relate to, and ignore the rest. Then they believe in god, go to church and call themselves christians. Honestly, I don't see the reason to hold on to this thing anymore. Most of those rules and guidance can't relate to these days at all. There are still few good ones like "treat others like you'd like to be treated" and so on. (well, that rule is older than christianity anyway, but still)

Didn't watch it yet, but I can guess what it's about. Definitely disagree. There's not a single being in the world that suffers from gay sex. Therefore, it can't be wrong. Personally, I don't understand the point of marriage in the first place, but if gays wanna get married, then they should be allowed to. Marriage wasn't invented by christians so they don't have the right to decide on that. Though, if they don't want gays in their churches, I don't understand why gays would want to go there in the first place. But even if there is such a thing as "god", there's no one in the world who can talk on the behalf of god. If someone claims to have authority to do this, that person is a lying asshole.

[Zeus 7997]

Personally, I don't understand the point of marriage in the first place, but if gays wanna get married, then they should be allowed to.

I had one of my gay friends at college explain it to me that gays fight/fought so hard for the right to marry in America because there are rights and privileges that come with marriage that do not come with civil unions (fight/fought because some states allow gay marriage, some don't, the entire thing is just one big confusing mess). I suppose that if my significant other ended up in the hospital and the doctors said that I couldn't be by them because we weren't married even though we were in a civil union or simply just living together and "unconfirmed life partners" for as far as the government is concerned that I'd fight for the right to get married too. I don't know how well that translates for countries abroad.

Also on the topic of marriage, I'm interested to see what will happen in the case of divorce with gay couples (especially ones with adopted kids). I'm not wishing any harm on any type of relationship but not all relationships work out. It's also a borderline fact that in America the courts are highly sexist and usually point in favor of the woman unless you can prove that she's a thieving, schizophrenic cokehead or something. I wonder how they'll start to cope when they can't rely on gender lines to put cases away. I also realize it has very little to do with the topic now but I'm wondering if anyone would like to enlighten me.

[bukimi_heishi 62]

Wow I am kind of afraid to even try to ad to this topic since I am christian and I follow

the most evil and sadistic asshole that human has ever written about. So it's only logical that his most loyal followers are like that too.

Personally I really don't have any issues with the act of homosexuality. One of my best friends through high school ended up telling us she was gay in my senior year and it was a little bit of a shock at first but I was always supportive of her and so were my other christian friends. Now I do believe that homosexuality is wrong in Christianity (and many other religions too and many non religious people also feel so) but on the other side of that for me to judge somebody for being gay and saying that they are going to hell is also wrong, since I am not God and I can't determine a persons fate.

I have to admit though that I really don't agree with the people that say you are born gay. I believe it is a choice that you make. I know probably everybody here will disagree with me on that but hey I just don't think it is natural to be so. I believe there is a reason that God made a man and a woman, there is a reason why women have the babies and that women have a vagina that the penis can easily fit into and that it isn't so easy for a penis to go into a butt and not to mention the higher chance for diseases. But if that is a choice somebody wants to make and they are happy with it then good for them and they shouldn't be hated against or not allowed to marry and have a family,etc

gays are no different to normal people. We have the same dreams, desires and values. And aren't here to turn the whole world gay.

[Peace Heavy mk II 7200]

I'm curious as to how you would explain that it is a choice.

Also, Zess pretty much explained the marriage thing. Pretty much, there's a lot of medical, tax, property, and a myriad of other "benefits," not "rights," a person gets with marital status, namely splitting some responsibilities between two people as opposed to having all of the burden on one. A lot of these benefits aren't granted with Civil Unions, or they're easily changed or taken away due to ~tricky wording~, which is why there has been such a fight for the word "marriage" lately, especially in my home state of New York. To be honest, there are a lot of people who want to use the word "marriage" because it means something to them because of their family tradition and it has the connotation of being a serious and committed relationship (in spite of the gay stigmas and America's tendency to fuck things up, but that's not the point of this thread), BUT, more importantly to me, they also want those same benefits as heterosexual couples. As Zess mentioned, one marital right is the ability to make health decisions for your partner if they are unable to do so for themselves. For example, if your partner becomes a vegetable beyond repair and you can no longer life support, you don't have the option to say "Please pull the plug. It's what he'd want if he got to the point" because your marriage or civil union isn't recognized everywhere OR whatever state you're in doesn't grant that ability to same-sex couples. In case you're wondering, that ability falls back onto the vegetable's family, even if they've been living together for 40+ years. So, I'm sure you can see what kind of cans of worms that could open if the family of the victim isn't so loving: "I've never wanted my son with that faggot: good thing he isn't allowed to see him anymore. He has no right to decide what to do with his life!"

Long story short: I don't give a fuck about your tradition or how marriage is now some sort of club for straight people to be in due to religion's influence. If I want to spend the rest of my life with someone, I can do it on my own without publicly declaring that I'm going to; HOWEVER, if I do decide to become married, I'd like to be treated the same a "normal" couple in terms of the ~cool stuff~ that comes with getting hitched. Pretty much, I look at marriage in the political sense, not the religious one.

[ramrod 108]

@ bukimi.

This isnt an attack on you. This is a copy paste of a post i made a whle earlier explaining the choice debate.

If you honestly think that this is a choice, then put yourself in our shoes. So you can know what it feels like to wake up every morning and go to school everyday wondering who’s going to make a comment, what kind of rumor you’re going to hear, who’s gonna be an ass towards you, always worrying about whether or not your parents will accept you, wondering if you’re ever going to be allowed to marry, adopt kids, be happy, and are in constant fear that you are going to hell... all on a daily basis. You know nothing about someone until you know what it’s like to be them.
Why would anyone in their right mind chose to be a minority? Especially one that is shunned. Why would we chose to do something that subjects us to ridicule...and a harder life? 

Noone purposefully choses a harder life.

There's a reason gays are 5-10 x more likely to commit suicide. It's because of rejection...and knowing that some of them will never be accepted by their peers...no matter how hard they try to be straight or fit in. Ones that try...fail. You can supress sexual behaviour, but not desire.

Not to mention .. i have no idea why marriage is explicitly believed to be christian? It's not...marriage was around before christianity adopted it... Vedas traditions were around before marriage.

[LIDL 692]

yep, Gay community mainly seeking marriage to be legal

for reasons that Zess and PMK II has said.

It is nothing like straight marriage that

in this modern day are mostly for business venture.

Also, being a gay is NOT a choice.

I can say this because i know i am not

and have never choose to be one.

I have known that i am different since very young age.

I just don't really understand it, but i do enjoyed

looking at cream horns more than muffins whenever i was

bathing in the river with my neighbours.

Only after i have my puberty,

everything getting clearer for me.

And i was growing up in a very Catholic family.

But my father has been raising me up well.

He always told me that there is a reason i was born this way.

And i am special this way. Everyone have their own mission/purpose.

This may sounds ridiculous, but

This makes me a stronger personality growing up against many

prejudice out there.

Maybe i was just fortunate, and i am aware not many people

have this kind of supports from their loved ones, even if they want to,

mostly because of social prejudice.

Also i am aware that there is gay for pay out there too.

And some people who curious. But they cannot be taken

as the example of what gay community is like.

Many stereotype that gay people loves sex and AIDS is our curse for such behaviour.

But actually gay men doesn't love sex because we are gay.

But because we are men. Straight or gay, Young or old.

Any race, any religions, men are made to love sex.

It is part of nature. Of course aside of asexual men.

And the fact is Straights, especially women who caught AIDS are much larger than Gay folks.

Because we aware and mostly play it safe or no anal at all,

(in this modern day, most gay folks even shunned anal sex and more into frottage)

and also because of the HIV/AIDS stigma as the disease that 'only gays get',

so many heterosexual partners didn't think they needed to worry about it.

And actually the highest cause of HIV/AIDS infection are injection (mostly drugs user)

and irresponsible promiscuous life style on second place.

154,000 persons in the U.S.A. contracted HIV through non-homosexual contact and are straight.

134,350 contracted it through male to male homosexual contact.

There is a chart on the CDC's website.

AIDS is a different thing,

having to do with CD4 counts and opportunistic infections in HIV infected people.

I won't look up death rates for you, try googling "aids death rates demographics"

[ramrod 108]

"But actually gay men doesn't love sex because we are gay.

But because we are men. Straight or gay, Young or old.

Any race, any religions, men are made to love sex.

It is part of nature. Of course aside of asexual men."

WORD. SOOO many people say anal sex is unfulfilling and thats why gay men are so promiscuous...

Ummm NO! men are men...irrespective of orientation... we love sex, and typicalyl the girl is who plays hard to get and makes the man work for sex...but when you have two men! There is no need for games. They both want the same. They are slutty because they are men. that is all.

[ginHigure 22]

I have to admit though that I really don't agree with the people that say you are born gay. I believe it is a choice that you make. I know probably everybody here will disagree with me on that but hey I just don't think it is natural to be so. I believe there is a reason that God made a man and a woman, there is a reason why women have the babies

You are neither born gay or straight.

Kids do not know what is gay nor straight. They see what they are taught to see. As mentioned in the documentary most species in the world do include gay ecosystems. We are part of the that chain and so we ourselves are that way. Nothing wrong with that. Because you said "god created a man and a woman", does it make sense to you that he would create animals that also are gay? Makes no sense, it's like TROLLING with nature...if you think about it is not, it was made perfectly the way it was meant to be.

The "BIBLE", the biggest troll ever to have been created. It is only a written text by people that has been passed down from generations to generations...simple as that.

I am catholic myself, i do not practice it often, i do pray every single day of my life and i can proudly say that i believe in my one God and nothing else-which excludes the bible, church and anything related to those.

All you need to do is be a good person and that is a given.

When i truly think about it, what is lacked the most in this world is "LOGIC". People do not try to make sense of it, they only find any explanation that is given to them, which satisfies people psychologically. So basically it does not satisfies what it truly means. You can check a lot of books in relation with this situation, philosophical books work a whole lot.

There is this quote that i will always remember: " You like philosophy and you are christian, has it driven you mad?"

Both contradict each other, but i noticed that if you combined both together-they become one.

[bukimi_heishi 62]

If it is perfectly natural for humans to be homosexual then why is it that homosexuals have such a hard time being accepted by non homosexuals ( not just the religious ones but also the non religious ones) Why is it that the human body isn't well equipped to handle homosexual intercourse? and why is it that humans are getting compared to other mammals? We are very different from other animals. how many other animals can do and have done what humans have? and it may be normal for some animal species to have homosexual behavior but there are also many that don't. So I don't really get the comparison.

[Karma’s Hat 3107]

You are neither born gay or straight.

But isn't the only point of living surviving? The urges to feed, sleep and breed.

If all men ( and in the end there isn't any difference between one and all, since the same things can happen to any of us ) were to suddenly lose their interest in females the human race would go extinct. There has to be something, somewhere that causes the creature to lose interest in the sex that is required to procreate. I'm not claiming anything since I don't got any science at hand to start using if I needed to start arguing about this, but what I just stated seems obvious to a person without much interest to the subject at hand and in-depth knowledge ( Me ).

[Ito 2438]

If it is perfectly natural for humans to be homosexual then why is it that homosexuals have such a hard time being accepted by non homosexuals

Honestly, that argument holds no merit. Being black is perfectly natural, but it seems that white people had a problem with it for many many years...

[Mei 276]

i still dont get why is it a problem the church rejection, like, who cares?. i believe in what i want and that's it.

anyway, i think homosexuality is natural, im not "unnatural" just for being bis. if it exists then it means it's natural. plus, as far as i know dogs dont get frustrated when they see 2 dogs taking a whiff on each others' balls. lol

also, i've been told nobody's born the way he/she is, but, different circumstances forges one's personality and such. im bis since i can remember so who can i blame for it? is it my fault? i swear i didnt pick this and if i could i'd turn into fully straight, but "nature" doesnt let me. im not complaining however, but why do i have to feel guilty just because the majority of ppl say it's not cannonical

*cough* im a pro keep-it-indoors though... */cough*

[Zeus 7997]

*cough* im a pro keep-it-indoors though... */cough*

If you mean what I think you mean by this though then I agree no matter what sexual preference anyone is. I feel uncomfortable when I walk out on the street and see two guys kissing. I feel uncomfortable when I'm out and about and see two girls kissing. I feel uncomfortable when I see a guy and a girl kiss. Outward, obvious, somewhat exaggerated acts of physical attraction unnerve me in public. I don't want to see it no matter who it is.