@violetchain well i'm always a bit sceptical about rip off theories, like, there is so much music in the world, most of the things that could be invented are already invented, in terms of musical theory, not technological progress of course. also it's too hard to distinguish rip off from being inspired by smth. speaking of this particular cause, i didn't know plastic tree and the novembers had connections, but it makes rip off theory even less feasible. if two bands have similar audience, it would be stupid for one of them to plagiarize another as it would be revealed too easy, which would be a pain in the ass