WWE Discussion is about wrestling drama and overcoming odds!

[Elazmus 1873]

RIGHT? I'm pretty positive it was a wardrobe thing, Trips took a nice looking throw but notice Steph was wearing a loose formal dress that is probably NOT a good idea to get thrown around in on TV, it's a shame she could have just worn something else XD but I'm not sure I believe ronda's agent claims that it was a one off appearance, BECAUSE we didn't see an armbar... it looked a lot more like a teaser. >_>

 

Yeahh I think most people were dead cold for the Seth/Randy from the get-go, mostly because the match is over nothing. but the finish spot was beautiful and it was very effective at taking focus off the idea of  a cash since seth lost.

 

LOL I usually refer to post mania Monday as "Apology-RAW" basically sucking up to the wrestling crowd after making all the safe calls at the PPV. Like when Miz won the IC title from Wade last year and then lost it back clean the next night.

 

Yeah I cant even think of anything that will significantly put Reigns over right now, as you said all the hot acts are busy. This is where he has to show some character drive. Get in a feud with someone over something other than just being "the guy" and how controversial that thought is. Kane or Show sounds... just awful... isn't it sad that the two of them are just like "superheavyweight J&J security" lmao.

 

Fuuckyea. Tables match would be nice for Ambrose and Harper. The US title match on RAW with the slight drama afterwards made me thirsty for Ambrose heel turn. I also think adding Reigns for a triple threat HW match is the best of a bad situation, even if Rollins and orton deliver. It's basically an undercard match from mania headlining ER

[Elazmus 1873]

Needed.

[Heroin 53]

i dont know if this is mentioned here but I just heard that Rey Mysterio accidently killed Pedro Aguayo jr. (mexican wrestler) from a flying kick. this is a first for me to hear someone to die in a ring.

happened not to long ago.

all im thinking is damn..

[Crube 585]

 

Yeah, that talking segment with Rousey, The Rock, and The Authority dragged on and on. Too bad the entrances for Sting and Wyatt was ruined due to the presence of the Sun. Imagine how brilliant it would have been to see the full force of the fireflies along with the scarecrows for Wyatt. (Pretty sure I stated that already, but it warrants another mention I guess.) Also, I didn't expect a lot of an upgrade for Sting's entrance considering they probably used the majority of the budget solely on bedazzling a Sgt. Peppers Club jacket for him.

 

 

The crowd was weird for Mania, but the crowd really goes all out when it comes to the Raw After Mania. Everything from the Suplex City chants to New Day Sucks really shows the smarks in the crowd. And typically, it's the entire crowd that are smarks in these types of shows. However, I am curious as to where they are taking Ambrose. I hope he continues on with the Roddy Piper meets Steve Austin type persona he has going on and he's a genuinely nice person outside of the ring and gimmick.

 

It is amusing how the crowd seemed to turn on Reigns since last years Royal Rumble, but people forget or choose to forget that it was either him or Batista and not a lot of people wants to see a part-time wrestler make it to a main event. (Although, this didn't stop The Rock from doing two ONCE IN A LIFETIME match with Cena two years in a row.) One of the many complaints I see for Reigns is that he sucks on the mic. I agree, but why couldn't we have a wrestler that is just about intimidation and wrestlingentertaining rather than how good he is at the mic.  Not everyone has to try to outmic the likes of The Rock or Phill Brooks.



Also, sucks for Augayo Jr. I saw this weeks ago, but I didn't know how much people here knew about the event let alone the wrestler involved that isn't No Knees Mysterio.

 

As far as Kane? He seems to have something stable to fall on after he eventually retires from the Dub Dub EEEEE. He and his wife started their own isurance company in Knoxville, Tennessee. After all, this guy is pretty smart and it really blows ones mind when they actually hear him discuss all things politics, finances, and so forth. (Although, his support for Ron Paul and Ru Paul is kind of weird, but to each their own.) Big Show on the other hand? I guess he can be the butt end of jokes for large guys in every family friendly movie that comes out from now until the end of time.

[Dark Kinma 960]

i dont know if this is mentioned here but I just heard that Rey Mysterio accidently killed Pedro Aguayo jr. (mexican wrestler) from a flying kick. this is a first for me to hear someone to die in a ring.

happened not to long ago.

all im thinking is damn..

I just see this on fb and I imagine that was a joke.

It's really tragic hope he can pass over this accident and come back.

 

But we don't repeat enough that wreslting is dangerous, keep safe and don't try this !

[Heroin 53]

I just see this on fb and I imagine that was a joke.

It's really tragic hope he can pass over this accident and come back.

 

But we don't repeat enough that wreslting is dangerous, keep safe and don't try this !

couldnt say it any better. stay safe people

[Elazmus 1873]

When you watch the 619 spot that killed Aguayo, it's hard to make out exactly how it happened. Rey appears to whiff the kick completely, just grazing over Aguayo's shoulders and back. I have to imagine that his trachea was crushed either when he sold the throw INTO the ropes, or from Rey's weight pressing down on him while missing the kick. I'm more likely to believe the first one because it explains why he didn't even try to sell the kick and he didn't move from that position.

 

It's sad that this happens on the one spot that Rey has been doing internationally for nearly 20 years, but it sounds like a large part seller-error. (No disrespect to Aguayo Jr -- probably just trying to bump like hell for the most world-famous move in lucha libre).

 

All this aside, what do you guys think of the main roster debuts from two of the world's best highflyers?

 

EDIT: @Crube: LOL the gif with Reigns and Rollins in the back..

 

I also have a thing for wrestling gifs

[Crube 585]

 

From the looks of it, it seems that's the case, but then again it could be from both. As far as NXT talent jumping onto the main programming? I just hope they go somewhere with Adrian Neville. He gets really good pops and I don't know if it's the writers, but it's funny how they leave out his weight during the billing. After all, he is the man that gravity forgot, which makes weight irrelevant for Neville.

[Elazmus 1873]

They've really nailed his main roster packaging imo. Awesome entrance and theme, some say the cape is too much and I get it. but when he poses on the stage with it turned to the crowd it really gets the superhero vibe. Totally different to any flyer they've had before. impressive build and more of a fighters mug on him than the Justin Gabriels and Matt Sydals, the strong style type striking is gonna be huge for him too. Athletically he blows just about everyone away of course. Yeah I noticed they skip his weight billing XD funny, but hey it doesn't hurt for him and it's cool with his gimmick.

 

This summer looking towards Charlotte Flair and Finn Balor. as geeeeneral possibilities. I'm fantasy booking Balor to be the one to finally shut Sheamus up for talking down the little'ns. After Sheamus gets his heat for knocking around ziggler and whoever else till summerslam

[Crube 585]

 

Honestly? If they want to give work with the high flyers, they should really bring back the Cruiserweight Title. Not everyone has to go for those two large pennies known as the Tag Team Title nor the stupid looking WWE Shield belt. Sure, we have the Intercontinental and U.S. belts, but with the Cruiserweight belt, it can really emphasize the agility of the high flyer wrestlers such as Neville. Also, I really can't wait to see KENTA wreck some shit in the main programming. He really doesn't need to work on mic. All he needs to do is go in, clean house, and GTS the crap out of others. I agree with Balor coming in as well. I just hope they don't mess with his character too much. Did you see that he re-twat the furry fan art of himself on his Twitter account?

[Elazmus 1873]

YEAH! Just brought up the cruiserweight to someone the other day! Honestly out of the NXT top crop I think the most compelling addition to the tag division could be Zayn and Owens together. The whole reason they are being predicted to be held back behind Kenta and Devitt is because their feud is the most intense NXT may have ever seen. I also (hate to say it but I) just really see them possibly flopping as singles debuts. Compared to the aforementioned there is just NO way they will catch the attention of casual viewers. Let them play out this bitter ass feud in NXT to the point where they come to a conclusion, then they become the tag team with like 10X the backstory that any other team on the roster has. apart from being amazing wrestlers. I've just never really been into Owens or even Steen and I've heard a lot of people say things like "This time next year people could be seeing Owens in the light of Brock Lesnar". I don't know what kind of psychological condition you have to be in to think something like that but it has to be affecting your eyesight at that point. He's an ugly, indy toughguy type, but Brock Lesnar literally makes him look like some chubby white trash kid I knew in middle school. (add a beard but no age on the face even lol)

 

I like that they are blueballing us a bit with the GTS but the placeholder finishers they give Kenta are fucking awful. the "Shotgun Kick" which to most people looks no different than Punk's basic calfkick. He was using the top rope stomp but they gave it to Balor instead XD

[Karma’s Hat 3107]

Anyone bothered to watch the PPV? It was clearly an opposite day on Sunday because Chicago wasn't fun at all, Ambrose/Harper stunk and Reigns had the match of the night. Even Ziggler and Shaymoose never really took off but it was an okay Raw match regardless with an acceptable ending. I wasn't too excited going into it anyway since every result was a foregone conclusion and I'm glad I didn't have to regret not staying up and watching it live. Took less than a month for the apathy to come back, even though the London episode was alrite with Reigns cutting a pretty good promo I thought!

 

Lololo did you guys see that Rusev and Cena are going to go at it AGAIN at the next PPV. The next match Rusev buried ali... I mean an I quit match.

 

I agree on Zayn and Owens coming up as a tag team. They can start having animosity between each other right after winning the tag titles maybe and then you can go back to their angle on the main roster again. I still can't stand Owens with his fucking terrible physique. Imagine what a fat midget he'll look like next to a ripped killer like Randy. At least other short guys like Neville are jacked and Bryan used to look kind of okay before all the injuries. I have a feeling Bryan is going retire soon at least for a while, but I hope he'd be okay to come back like Shawn did.  

 

Am I the only one here who's all in on the UFC now? This summer is going to kill with 187, 188 and 189. 190 looks pretty bad with Rousey headlining and all the soon to be retired heavyweights filling up the undercard, but they'll have something decent in there by then I'm sure. If Jones fucks up the 187 main event now with his shit I'll be devastated. 

[Elazmus 1873]

I like how even when Reigns has match of the night, he doesn't do anything new. He took a nice spot through multiple tables but all of his highlights were still superman punches and spears. I remember a few months ago I noticed him to a back suplex variation twice with no release, I thought cool, almost like a reference to getting ready for Brock, just make that part of your offense, so you can say you have SOMETHING you can do on the mat. SOMETHING that isn't running between the ropes and just picking any one of you moves that all serve the same purpose. Never saw it again.

 

I miss real hype for Reign thee guy either is just not imaginative, or has no confidence in his imagination. What's worse the company has no imagination FOR him, he clings to the riot gear, clings to a worse remix of the shield theme, comes out of the crowd ALONE and always from the same area which makes it not even look tactical. You can tell the people making these decisions are the same ones who thought the Wyatt family needed to break up and pretend they've never met.

 

I wish Harper and Ambose had done something to live up to the ladder-powerbomb that started the feud

 

Kiss Me Arse ending proves that it was an awful fucking idea. but hey that's an extreme stipulation right?

 

Wade gets to suffer for someone else's injuries this time instead of his own.

 

Anyway back to Extreme Rules. I have a serious problem with the end of the chain match. As far as I can see, rules were broken. WHAT exactly causes the lights to reset? is it a span of time like 5+ seconds? I seem to remember the announcers saying something about time between hitting the buttons, but that seemed to get thrown out the window mid match, by the end it seemed like the lights reset if you are forced to stop pressing them and go back to wrestling but it ended with Cena hitting the AA right before pressing the last button.

 

they (timekeepers) also botched the FUCK out of the light system in the first 5 minutes of the match, I don't think anyone even knew what the rules were supposed to be. Shit match, strap and chain matches should just be pinfall or submission, WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY did they bother teasing the submissions with the chain if that has nothing to do with the finish. XD

 

I was going to GO to extreme rules (I live in Chicago very close to rosemont) but my friends and I all found ourselves short for cash and eh. As a resident I can tell you the Chicago crowd has been castrated since punk left. I was present watching him win the title and it was one of the greatest things ive ever seen(and felt), nowadays I go to the allstate and all the good energy is gone it's just grating smarkiness  I'm genuinely still drunk from the amount I had to drink during and after the show.

 

I'm bitching harder than I wanted to but this show in particular gave me nothing to go home with.

 

Hey it's post wrestlemania = annual WWE apology month.

[Karma’s Hat 3107]

Not going to lie, I skipped the Cena Rusev match entirely. Like really who gives a shit at this point and why in the bloody hell is this feud still going- Oh that's right it's exactly what you said, it's the same imbeciles who got Bray buried last year. Remember when that guy got huge reactions last year before and little bit after mania? Rip 

 

I like Reigns' look now with moar facial hair and I like that he is getting a little bit more comfortable out there as time passes, teasing heel behavior even. Really what I want from him the most is more aggressiveness and more offense in matches. He needs to be a brute because he just looks silly when he is getting beat up for 90% of the match. But at the end of the day I'm just amazed that someone actually managed to have a match with Show in 2015 that wasn't completely abysmal. 

 

I'm jealous about the opportunity but I probably would have regretted going 2 after that dud of a street fight lolol. I hope they're going around the east coast next winter when I'm going to New York for a while. Too bad I recall the rumble next year was at some who gives a fuck state. 

[Elazmus 1873]

Haha I don't blame you, if it was like a dog collar match with regular pinfall rules it could have been pretty badass but no matter how good the move-exchange got, watching them press the buttons just makes you like >_> (again, they were failing to light or lighting up late a lot in the opening stretch)

 

Yup that's a big problem with reigns, whenever he takes hits he is immediately reeling and wobbling all over the place falling into the ropes, they treat him like Goldberg when he attacks but when you cut him off you see he learned selling from seth rollins lmao. When he gets to choose his lines he makes them awesome, in the shield I remember seeing him spear the shit out of dolph at ringside and it threw him like 6 feet away into the barricade. Reigns glared at him and said "Don't EVER get up." (Ambrose up on the turnbuckle spitting, thrashing and barking like SCSA)

 

I want to see THAT on his gear / catchphrase list.

 

but yeah he got a good ass showing out of bigshow, I really hope he retires him like they teased because its something all the young people want to see regardless of who does it. cant complain when the guy saves us from another 12 alignment turns and buckets of soap opera tears a year.

 

Lolll I think they are afraid to do the RR in front of good crowds now because they're so bad at picking winners

[Crube 585]

 

I almost forgot I was watching a PPV for a moment and it felt more like Sunday Night Raw than anything else. I suppose a street fight and a stupid stipulation will make it extreme for the PG-Era of WWE. I didn't care about Cena and Rusev nor the Divas Title match. I'm kind of tired of the Bella Twins and I hope they bring in better Divas in the near future. I feel bad about Bryan, but it gave Neville a spot... in the pre-show against Wade Barrett. Monday Night Raw was pretty lacking. To be honest, I kind of forgot about most of the stuff with the exception that Neville went on to the semi-finals for King of the Ring. I'm hoping he becomes The King That Gravity Forgot. Also, JBL made a reference to The Onion. So, there's that.

[Elazmus 1873]

ALL HAIL KING BARRETT.

Finally something different for him. Fresh, easy to talk a big game about, fits his character perfectly. The motherfucker has been wearing a cape with tassels for like 2 years now lol.

It's hard to tell what the E actually thinks of the KOTR right now, I'm just glad it's not a worthless title that they will toss around to the Miz, Curtis Axel and then back to BNB before the end of the week..

Still, any clean, hard fought victory is a blessing for Barrett. They sure know how to make pushing him look hard. That Bullhammer out of the corner though..

[Crube 585]

 

I'm pretty sure the writers still have no idea what to do with him. From leading a revolutionary group to being a brawler to being a TMZ reporter? Hopefully his run as king will have him become face to go against the Irish known as Sheamus.

[Elazmus 1873]

That's one of the things I didn't understand, they are willing to gamble turning Ziggler, Swagger and even fucking ADR face but never wanted to try it with Barrett.

 

I wish he could be in charge of something, he was so natural as a faction leader. but his current standing makes it seem so unlikely that anyone would be willing to work in a stable with him loll but Barett vs Sheamus is always amazing 

[Karma’s Hat 3107]

It's nice is that Barrett won because he's a cool guy and they've treated him like a joke since he got the IC belt. It's beyond me how much they have the champions job in this company like for example them feeding the tag champions to blandy, who took them on single-handed!

Getting the new guize overrrrr now Rusev soon to have three decisive pay per view losses in a row to one person durr he'll be midcarding superstars with swagger by the end of the year just watch. 

 

It's a shame that they brought King of the ring back just to occupy the midcard for a week due to Bryan's absence. They should stretched it and have it replace one of the more useless PPVs with it like Battleground because King of the ring is a lot of fun. Well either way King Barrett will hopefully turn out to be a good angle for the midcard and hopefully it'll lead to singles matches with Sheamus.

 

Speaking of which, Sheamus was honestly really under appreciated by people like an year ago but now I've been seeing people like him more and more. His great match with Cesaro from last year really salvaged that PPV it was on last year. I suppose it was the gimmick which I wasn't really a fan of either, so this heel turn did him a world of good. 

[Tetora 625]

MONTRÉAL RAW LIVE REPORT!

Just got back from an absolutely awesome night, where I MORE than got my money`s worth!

Rolled in early, me and my crew got the new gear, wanted Ziggler`s stuff too, but they only had small sizes and XXL... Argh! Also, people have Bullet Club shirts (from New Japan Pro Wrestling!), and also some NXt shirts that they wore, like Kevin Owens`.
Got to my seat, place started filling up nicely.

Crowd was hot, chanting Ole, and getting pumped.

SuperStars dark match was Swagger vs. Harper. Both were popular, Swagger a little more, he lost though with a devastating combo.

Then it was Lucha Dragons vs. Los Matadores. Lucha were well over, and people boo`d the Matadores, El Torito was getting a lot of heat, lol, but he was super entertaining.

Then we kick off Raw, Randy is still over like there is no tomorrow, and I can`t help but admire his amazing look, presence, focus, and body language (which has to be some of the best of all time). Just the little things he does, like react to a bad pun by New Day, is so well done.

Roman was half over, and had half-baked heat. Not close to a Cena reaction at all, and people will boo Reigns getting attention, but then cheer him for a nice move, like the Samoan catch, or Suicide Dive.

New Day, people loved to hate, it was genuine heat when they were good guys, but now that they are bad guys people love to chant New Day Sucks, and honestly couldn`t help but crack up at some of their jokes. It works well. Also kids still like New Day, lulz.

Natalya was absolutely beautiful. Words can`t describe, I tell ya.

Ryback got a stupid reaction, IMO, the Goldberg thing makes no sense, but he played off it well, and people quickly changed their tune to chant FEED ME MORE.

People like Wyatt but honestly don`t seem to listen to what he says.

Barrett looks great in person, on t.v. he looks kind of slim, but I was really impressed in person, he has nice mass.

Ambrose was over, he is more over than Roman, and one of the most over guys period, with no haters. Seth also gets lots of cheers mixed in. Crowd loved their match, and both of their personalities are pretty much perfected. Ambrose put on a better match than usual as well, really stepping it up and showing people he has more range.

Bella Twins are over, the whole place really wanted to see them, even if they might not care as much about a match, they want to see them, so they are definitely a draw. When their music hits everyone stands up instantly.

People really like Fandango, and they also REALLY like Lana. Rusev also gets genuine heat.

Nobody really cared that much about Ascension.

Sheamus is also a heel that people like a lot now.
Neville is over, even though some people didn`t know who he was they instantly seemed to start to like him.
Ziggler is well over, and has always been one of the guys who has that `larger than life` feel. Only a few guys have it, IMO, no matter what their size, or what they do, like Bryan, Punk, Jericho, Mysterio, and obviously guys like Cena and Orton. Ambrose and Rollins also have it coming in. I think Roman needs more time, as he seems a little shaken and not 100% sure of himself and his role in the WWE due to crowd reactions. Orton outshines him now, but I think Roman can be great if he finds himself.

Also, lol, people boo`d Cole when he entered, popped big for JBL, and popped even bigger for Booker.

But as for Cena himself...

Oh man, it doesn`t matter what time they put him on, he is the Main Event. The reaction was EARTH SHATTERING. Just for him, then they throw in a build-up to Sami, have Bret come out, then legit have Sami come out? It was deafening, and people went nuts. Biggest reactions of the night.

I checked the WWE Youtube videos, and as usual, they turn down the crowd noise for moments like this, because you legit would not be able to hear anyone talk in the ring. It`s something else.

Obviously we loved Sami, and I am not sure how much you saw on t.v., but he was LEGIT HURT at the beginning of the match, then they went to commercial. Cena spoke to Sami, and spoke to the refs, etc... He made Sami was okay and could still go. Sami popped his shoulder back in, started hitting it, and stretched it out on the ropes. Cena then tried to favor his other side as to not attack where Sami is weak.

Sucks for Sami, as this was his big moment, as he left the ring, he was fighting back tears, I am sure they were half from the pain, and half from the emotions of making his RAW debut in Montréal and having it go slightly wrong.

Also, quick note, most guys are given tips or instructions by the camera guys and refs, etc... The only guys who actually give instructions or their input to the refs and camera are Cena, Orton and HHH.

Anyway, the main event was nice. I get the feeling people don`t really hate Kane, and don`t even want to legit boo him. Ambrose walked out on top as you know, and the crowd loved it.

But after the show... Oh man...

We had Pat Patterson appreciation night, they played back all the videos and more, with everyone saying how much he did for them, how great he was at coming up with ideas...

And I had no idea, but VINCE came out, and everyone popped hard and sang his theme. It was amazing to see him.

Then Bret came out again and talked about Pat`s amazing legacy.

They gave him a Montréal Canadiens jersey with `Patterson` on it, and the number 1.

Pat was fighting back the tears the whole time.

Then... man oh man...

Motorhead hit...

HHH came out, I couldn`t believe it, I wanted to see him SO BAD!

It was amazing, and everyone popped hard. We all started chanting HHH, but Trips gave us a look like: Wait a minute, this night`s not about me, lol`. And he turned the attention to Pat again quickly.

Trips told some old Pat Patterson stories, and then presented him with a beautiful framed display of a custom White Intercontinental Belt, which looked absolutely awesome, one of the nicest I ever saw. And some pictures of important moments in Pat`s history. It was awesome.

All the wrestlers were on the stage, btw, and cheering him. Pat sang `My Way` and then the show was over. Cena and Trips spoke to Pat as they walked out.

And btw, Fandango and Roman stood close on stage, and chatted as they walked out, so I think they might be good friends. Just something I noticed.


I think that`s all I had to say, nothing too exclusive, just my observations and maybe some things you missed on t.v. My lungs are sore, my voice is gone, my hands are still red from clapping, and I had so much fun.
If you have any questions just post them or P.M. and I will most likely add the answers to the end of this post.

[Karma’s Hat 3107]

DEAN BACK IN THE MAIN EVENT SCENE YES. Good match from him and seth 2 I wonder if we get a shield triple threat for Summerslam that'd be incredible, though I wouldn't fault them if they decided to save that first time for a future mania.

 

Great show with a fantastic crowd and just good matches in general and while that US invitational doesn't make any sense since Cena's already booked for Rusev, they've been almost PPV quality matches for RAW. I saw people speculating that Zayn's injury was a work but I think he just decided to work it into the match and persevere through it. I hope an NXT talent is the one that will eventually get that US belt.

 

The best thing on the show aside from Dean's elevation? The tag champions didn't job! 

[Elazmus 1873]

Dean's first world title shot!!

 

He just injected the life back into the main event.

 

OH OH and for anyone unaware.....

 

Smackdown spoilers saw Rowan come out and interrupt Harper vs Fandango, only to beat down Fandango while Luke watches....

So teasing the reforming of the family....

 

+The shield feat.Orton in the title picture

 

Fingers crossed

[Crube 585]

 

Awesome report, Tets! Hopefully one day I'll find time to attend to one of these live events. (Also helpful if they are within driving distance too.) Very happy to see that more NXT stars are jumping on Raw. THE ILLUMINATI started off as a formidable tag-team, but it seems like they are just there to job, although the Lucha Dragons are doing pretty well. Sami looked a little rough on the edges for the premier match and I guess it makes sense now. Popping his shoulder in AND continuing? That's some dedication right there! And while I'm a fan of Adrian Neville, it seems like he has become The Man That Victory Forgot as well. I guess I understand building his character, but at least give him a little bit more victories instead of becoming a complete squash to the established wrestlersentertainers.

Speaking of established entertainers, Chris Jericho is coming back this Summer for a few months it seems. From his Facebook page, the Y2J WWE Tour will run from June 12th to August 30th. Clearly not enough time to start a lasting feud. Maybe that will be enough time for Jericho to put an NXT star over in those months? Maybe Neville or Zayn? After all, that was the only reason why he lost to Fandango in Wrestlemania a few years ago. (Still got to love the light up jacket.)

[Elazmus 1873]

Haha I had been telling people this for like a year before THE ILLUMINATI debuted on the roster, even in NXT I was like "Fullsail crowd has such good taste, why are they popping for these cartoon jabronies with an overblown entrance?" They were NEVER good. Their whole repertoire consists of corner stomping and uppercuts. They can mug someone just fine but in an actual match you can instantly see they are terrible. In their one PPV bout with the NAO I remember being bored and commenting how they haven't done a single wrestling move yet, Konnor looked like he was realizing the same thing, went for some kind of ill advised power move that I cant really name because it was botched so bad. it was like a chairlift backdrop that landed road dogg on his fuckin face. They never went for another wrestling move again.

 

Konnor has been in developmental for years and will never improve, Viktor has decent ability but he's also been in development for years and he's no where near deserving of a roster spot along side any other callups from these past few years.

 

In the full, stadium lighting of Monday Night RAW, they even LOOK like shit. The lights on NXT were very flattering. This is probably why Vince panicked and wanted to doll them up to look more impressive, saw the end result and said to himself "Okay fine lets just flush this shit." and told them to cut a promo trashing Road Warriors and such XD