Tagging system feedback

[Champ213 1858]

As you know, with the change to the new forum software earlier this year, we also introduced the new tagging system. We started with a few basic rules, but otherweise we wanted to let the system grow organically and see how it works out.

 

Obviously A LOT of people don't read the rules though. So I have to do a very tedious clean-up on a regular basis. XD

 

 

Anyway, after having the system around for several months now, I would like to get some feedback.

 

Do you use the tagging system (either by adding tags yourself or by searching for releases via tags)? Do you find it useful? If not, what could be changed to make it more useful?

 

 

Here are some issues that I would like to raise myself:

 

1. At the moment, tags are voluntarily (except for the topic prefixes indicating the release type). Should we make it obligatory to add at least 1-2 tags to a release?

 

2. We are currently working with an open system - that means anyone can tag whatever they want. The system allows to change to a closed tag system, where only predefined tags are allowed (just like the topic prefixes). The advantage: tags would be more coherent, no wrong tags, no variants of similar tags etc. The disadvantage: less flexible. Since the predefined tags appear as a drop-down menu, we can't just expand them ad infinitum.

 

3. The fine tuning: are there any tags you think should be disallowed? Changed? Merged? (For example, we have the tags "kote kei" and "old school" - while that technically could describe different things, they are now being used for the same sort sort of music). Also, do you like to see release years added as tags? Bitrates?

 

5. Broadening: at the moment, most tags decribe a loose genre. Should we encourage to use other kind of tags? For example, decribing a mood. A release tagged just as "visual kei" is pretty non-descript. But imagine you had tag combinations like this:

visual kei | rock | happy

visual kei | metal | aggressive

rock | ambient | relaxing

Or whatever you can think of. I think these give a better idea of what a release sounds like.

 

 

Anyway, let me know your thoughts and suggestions!

[fitear1590 2414]

Release dates, bitrates, and moods are interesting concepts for tagging! Never considered those, but I think that'd be a cool idea.

And this is more of a question than a suggestion, since you oversee the tags.  Do you notice a problem with hyphenation when it comes to tagging?  For instance, "post-rock" or "post rock"?  I assume that would appear as two "different" tags.  Are people consistent enough that this isn't an issue?

 

[Champ213 1858]

And this is more of a question than a suggestion, since you oversee the tags.  Do you notice a problem with hyphenation when it comes to tagging?  For instance, "post-rock" or "post rock"?  I assume that would appear as two "different" tags.  Are people consistent enough that this isn't an issue?

 

 

Nope, that's one of the things I constantly have to fix. (Sadly, the admin interface for the tagging system is rather clumsy - I can only fix one tag at a time and then it always jumps back to the first page - and we now have over 80 pages of tags. XD  So at this point, I really only delete/fix wrong tags if they start to appear in bigger numbers).

 

A closed system would fix that, but it would also limit the number of possible tags. 

[Muma 97]

A closed tagging system seems more...functional? Not the right word, something closer to 'useful'. At the moment a lot of the time I feel that it isn't really worth having tags due to the large variety and as you mentioned, tags like 'kote kei' and 'old school', within the context of MH anyway, seems to pretty much overlap. I also think that compulsory tagging would be a good idea, maybe more people will be inclined to read the rules then >< but I think more than one tag to be compulsory would be better, as visual kei is quite broad ><

 

I do like the idea of tagging mood though! This is presuming that tags will be included representative of all the different subgenres such as oshare etc etc... It would probably be helpful to have a kind of guideline to them. Not really sure angura kei consists of tbh and it would probably be useful for and if anyone is unsure then it would be a good reference point.

 

Maybe this is slightly influenced by my obsessive nature and want to put things into little boxes
But it'd be interesting to see what everyone else thinks

[Aion 184]

ok, point wise

 

1: YES, a definitive yes. Even if it is blatantly one genre, you can also add female vocalist / male vocalist to it or whatever. Just keep it civil and don't give it tons of tags... I mostly give my threads like 3-5 tags (f.e. rock, garage, indie, male vocalist OR alternative pop, synthpop, major, female vocalist)

 

2: I prefer an open system (hate dropdown menu's that have a shitload of options), but there is probably noway of auto-correct right? For a better version than the closed system should be better...

 

3: tags should be genre or music-specific items. Not bandmembers, bandnames, labelnames or whatever bullshit some people use... If I want to search for label-specific or band-specific things, there's a search bar on top... tags should be for recommendations imo...

 

4: GOOD POINT~!!!!

 

5: Nope, as I said earlier, tags hould be genre or music-specific items. Everybody can get different emotions with the same album. Especially if it's in a different language. Some bands sing very happy about horrific events. for example vamos a la playa. A very happy song, but not untill recently I knew the actually meaning, which is the aftermath of a nuclear war...

 

So should it be funny? happy? summer-y? comical?

 

My €0.02

[Pandabear 414]

 Yes. Make tagging obligatory. The system will be more efficient if everyone has to use it. No more releases will fall through the cracks and go as untagged either.

 

I like the open tagging system we have now. However I can see the downsides it poses. For example people tagging releases incorrectly, whether they are using quotes, "rock" or using incorrect descriptions that have nothing to do with the music genres. I'm with Aion on only using tags that apply to the music and not having labels, band members etc used as tags. I say keep the open system for now, make tagging obligatory and sees how things go. If people are tagging too many releases incorrectly and it becomes a big problem switch over to the closed system. 

 

Although tags by bitrate/realse date would be cool, I think it's unnecessary. Most people already provide those two things in the post anyway. And I'm not sure how often someone would use those tags to look up a release. It seems like a lot of effort to go through when someone could just easily look up a release using a number of other keywords like band/album/genre etc.

 

The only tags I think should be disallowed are redundant ones. Like the ones that already banned. J-pop, J-rock. I have no problem with people using visual kei, old school, or a specific genre of kei as a tag. Although they may fall under the vk umbrella each of the subgenres of vk have their own distinctive sound which may help people who are looking for a certain type of kei. 

 

I think tagging by mood is flawed since releases can have several moods. I don't want to tag an album with a half dozen moods in order to post a album. And I said before, I think tags should stick to describing the musical genres of a release. However broadening tags for releases marked visual kei would be useful. Tagging an album as VK isn't enough to describe what type of genre it is. In addition to the vk tag, it should have at least another tag like rock, metal, pop or whatever. Unless this poses a problem. Say your looking up a rock tag and then get a whole bunch of vk releases you're not into. If it's possible to use the search function in the vk download section and like wise,  use the search function in the general download area, but only get results for the respective section your in, than do it.

 

 

 

 

[JukaForever 758]

Current system is fine right now although I would like the people more versed in proper tagging to do so for the uploader. Some uploaders are just bad at tagging, including me.

[Champ213 1858]

 

2: I prefer an open system (hate dropdown menu's that have a shitload of options), but there is probably noway of auto-correct right?

 

Sadly, no. The ideal system would be an auto-complete system, where you start typing and the system automatically gives you suggestions of approved tags. Our current system can't do that and I'm not sure if there is another/better tagging system that works with the forum software.

 

I should also note, if we decide to go for a closed system, we would most likely stick with genre-related tags, to keep the list short. Any expansion of the tags to release year/bitrate/file format/ moods etc. would only be possible if we keep the system open.

 

If we do keep the system open, I might compile a list of proper tags that goes beyond the ones shown the tag cloud.

Sure, those people that don't even read the current tagging rules and still continue to use release names etc as tags, won't look at that list either. But maybe it is helpful to at least SOME people. XD The list could even include clickable links to show all releases tagged with it. It would basically be an extended tag cloud.

 

After all, it's also in the best interest of the uploaders to use proper tags, to make your threads more easily found. If everyone uses the tag "post-rock", and one person uses "post rock", then that thread won't be found by the post-rock-lover clicking on the "post-rock" tag.

 

Anyway, thanks for all the feedback so far!

[yakihiko 1480]

I like the tagging system, it's very effective, I agree in put the year on the release date as a tag, like "2012", "2013" also a tag for the label "Universal Japan", "Sony Japan" would be very good... about the bitrate tags maybe isn't a good idea, someone can use a "320" tag on low rips, it would create some problens.

[Aion 184]

I like the tagging system, it's very effective, I agree in put the year on the release date as a tag, like "2012", "2013" also a tag for the label "Universal Japan", "Sony Japan" would be very good... about the bitrate tags maybe isn't a good idea, someone can use a "320" tag on low rips, it would create some problens.

No, just no...

 

Tags are to place everything together within a genre... A bandname is more logic that way than a year or bitrate, but for that there's a search bar on top...

 

For example, I like the new release by Dir en Grey (like lolwut), I want releases that are similar, genre wise, and thus I can click on a genre that's listed under it. If it's tagged with 2013, I get ALL releases of that year, even if it is Morning Musume for example...

Same goes for tagging with labels... Especially in the case of major bands, the type of bands can vary enormously (?) within labels itself...

 

Bitrate, releasetype, release year should be mentioned in the thread title, not in the tags...

[TheBistroButcher666 228]

I prefer a closed system to avoid redundant tags or made up dumb tags.

[kai_desu 340]

"visual-butts"

[Ailin 8]

It would be useful indeed. The tagging system would be one way it would be functional and it would seriously help the site a lot more. 

[sebbivism 134]

Making it obligatory will only result in people tagging the first thing they think of and that is "visual kei" and "metal", those tags are so unnecessary because why should there be "visual kei"-tags when the download section now is divided into a complete separate section for visual kei.

[Guest Magatsu]

Well I will never user TAGS.

So I also won't tag someting if I post something in the DL forum.

[Champ213 1858]

Making it obligatory will only result in people tagging the first thing they think of and that is "visual kei" and "metal", those tags are so unnecessary because why should there be "visual kei"-tags when the download section now is divided into a complete separate section for visual kei.

 

 

For the moment, the split of the forums is temporary (trial run). If by the end of the year we decide that it will stay like this, then I will probably remove the "visual kei" tag (although all the other forums like Videos, Discographies etc. are still mixed.)

 

 

So, after reading through all of this, I came to the following conclusions:

 

1. The tagging system will stay open for now. I think it would be cool to change to a closed system one day (so much less work ), but the limitations of our tagging plugin (Drop-down menu) prevent that for now.

 

2. I will most likely make tagging obligatory to two tags and see how it works out. Adding two simple words that describe the nature of your upload is not too much to ask, especially in an open tagging system. Even rudimentary tags like "metal" or "rock" are better than no tags at all. And I hope it will encouarge poeple to put a little thought into the music they're uploading, minstead of just dropping the link and leave. Surely uploaders want people to download their stuff? Then why wouldn't they give as much info as they can, and make their uploads easily searchable by using proper tags?

 

3. I will start working on a list of recommended/often-used tags. The tags will be linked, so the list will function as an extended tag cloud for people that want to browse uploads by certain categories. But the list can also be used by uploaders looking for good tags to add.

 

4. The rules we have now remain in place: no artist names, no release titles. I will continue to remove wrong tags when they appear in larger numbers and I will try my best to continue merging duplicate tags like "Post rock" & "post-rock". If people decide to tag their files with stuff like "happy", "sad", bitrates etc. I won't remove them - but I won't encourage to use them either and they will probably not be included in the recommended tags list. If we ever change to a closed system in the future, these sort of tags can be up to discussion again.

 

 

Anyway, thanks for all the feedback.

[fitear1590 2414]

 

3. I will start working on a list of recommended/often-used tags. The tags will be linked, so the list will function as an extended tag cloud for people that want to browse uploads by certain categories. But the list can also be used by uploaders looking for good tags to add.

The "extended tag cloud" is a great idea!