Genres...?!

[nullmoon 784]

Hi guys,

I've been listening to Visual Kei for years now but I still have absolutely no idea how to 'genre-ify' (is there a word for this?! Categorise I guess?) 99% of it. I'm totally cool with categorising Oshare Kei and Nagoya Kei because they're the only types I really feel comfortable labelling. With stuff like Crossfaith, I just bung it into a 'J-Metal' folder so as to distinguish it from Western stuff.

 

However, I have a ton of bands who I don't know how to categorise. As a result I simply put them under Visual Kei, which according to this site is highly incorrect! Some guidance on the following bands would be really appreciated!

 

-Bands like Kagrra

-Bands like Kra

-Bands like Alice Nine

-Bands like Versailles

-00's bands which had a lot of shouty stuff (early NoGoD, Ayabie, Lolita23q etc)

-Bands like Alsdead/Deluhi/old Lycaon/Heartless etc

-Bands like new Lycaon

-Bands like D'espairsray

-Bands like The GazettE, who I guess sorta links to Girugamesh now?

-DIR EN GREY!!! (I guess they are in a genre of their own? People say their older albums are similar to old VK but I just don't see it. Were many bands doing songs like Myaku?!)

-Older bands like Luna Sea, Glay etc

-Copycat bands like Grieva (would they be the same as above?)

-Miyavi...?

-Punk bands like The Piass

-Rentrer en Soi? What would they be...?

 

Sorry, this is pretty messy but any help would be great! It would be cool to put a genre on shuffle and not come across songs that have nothing in common. 

[LIDL 692]

Most bands are having lots of genre.

But if you feel like to generalize it, just slap rock on it, symphonic for Versailles kind of sounds and Dark Wave for Kaya style of music

[JukaForever 758]

Can't you just have one big folder that says Visual Kei?

[Guest mitsubana]

I just have all of my visual kei music labeled as visual kei on my iTunes haha. Makes life easier.

[Peace Heavy mk II 7200]

A lot of these are a mix of genres, which is why people tend to say "you can't really call something one genre" or "there's no one specific way to define a genre of a band." What I can say, though, is that visual-kei isn't really a genre even if there are typical things that really say "this sounds like a vkei band." Our very own Zess wrote a very nice post in another thread discussing how vkei isn't really a genre, nor a scene, nor a movement, while still actually being all three at the very same time. What the fuck, Japan.

 

 

The Piass, for example, had several genre changes. They started out as, and for the most part remained, a punk rock band. They had some thrash metal in there as well, and their 2nd album had some happy / pop punk mixed with melodic rock that was en vouge from 1995~1999 (while still having very aggressive guitar work that Takayuki is associated with). Compare "Never Say Die" with "Over Again," and you'll see what I mean. Their third era changed genres again: here they got a bit more -core , slightly crusty, and even a bit nu metal here and there but still had a "punk" feel to them. Today, who knows what they sound like. They've added a 2nd guitarist, changed vocalists for the 3rd time, and haven't released anything in almost 6 years. For the sake of simplicity, it's just easier to say "The Piass were hardcore punk and have been around for forever" even if that is a broad, sweeping description of their discography which, compared to many other vkei bands, was very volatile.

 

 

From the bit of Diru I listen to, they were pretty typical to what was going on around 1998--they were just more creative about doing it, and since they're worshipped today they're often credited for inventing a lot of typical visual-kei styles (which, from an objective standpoint, is fairly accurate for their post-Gauze work). From the time period I like most, they were what was more or less pioneered by Kuroyume. Actually, a lot of late 90s bands fall under this genre which doesn't really have a name--it's a mix of post-punk, gothic rock, new wave, with black metal influence sprinkled on top (the manic laughter, "outbursts of emotion" a la Madeth Gray'll, frantic mumbling, bizarre gagging noises, pata-pata-pata drum structures, etc). Kuroyume started this with their first demo, then their first mini-album, but moved on from this with later releases. This style was more solidified with bands like La:Sadie's, Madeth Gray'll (who upped the gothic influence) and Aliene Ma'rriage (who added more an industrial spin to it), with other groups making their own variations like Due'le Quartz (Miyabi was awfully progressive and technical in his compositions) and DAS:VASSER (who seemed to be more into adding punk influences than adding harpsichord and pipe organ).

 

See how this is hard to really pin-point?

[Ikna 1225]

i am actually a Genre bitch as I take those generalizations really serious. But I do that so I can help myself finding new stuff that's similiar to the things I already like. If I want to find more bands sounding like The Cure for example then it just comes very handy when their musical style is put in some categories such as New Wave/Post-punk or goth to find bands who were heavily inspired by them and therefore have a similiar sound.

But I am not doing this so much in Vk. In fact I am refusing to apply "genres" to Vk, even though most bands certainly can be put into one (as Vk alone doesn't often qualify as genre itself). I think it's good enough to differntiate between eraly punk-glam visual kei, 90s "Kote kei" stuff, Nagoya kei (traditional and "modern") and divide new vk bands into "Hardrock/Metal", "metalcore/hardcore" or "Pop (Rock)". For me most Vk bands of a certain era had a certain style. You can be sure that 90% of say 1997-1999 era bands had either the typical Matina/Soleil/Key Party style or the typical soft visual style. Modern Vk works basically the same way.

The "danger" I see in trying to put Genre labels over Vk is that fans often come up with alternate genres themselves. People then start to throw some bands based on their visuals and music into "[insert any cool or funky term or word] kei". I really don't think that fantastical categorizations like "Lolita kei", "Gothic kei", "Metal kei" etc. are really that useful when, in the end, it's all just Visual kei.

So yeah, it would be the best to just leave them as Visual kei. Of course if you like it you can still personally put them into genre folders, but sometimes it will be hard to put a band into a certain category since Vk music is very heterogenous. Some bands can play a few spot on Death Metal songs and have another reportoir of songs fitting into the Pop Punk category- often those genre shifts happen even on the same release or album.

 

 

-DIR EN GREY!!! (I guess they are in a genre of their own? People say their older albums are similar to old VK but I just don't see it. Were many bands doing songs like Myaku?!)

 

Hm... I disagree I think people are way too much overrating early Dir en grey. They sure were a huge influence, but they weren't as unique and special as many claim them to be. Don't get me wrong, I love their early stuff, much more than their newer work. I don't know how familiar you are with old school visual kei, especially the small indies bands no man cared about, but most of them at that time sounded axactly like early Dir en grey. In fact their first album Gauze was almost like the band wanted to put every possible late 90s Vk clichée into it, starting with the whole "Eins, Zwei, Drei, Vier" thing to the crazy maniacal laughter and stuff...  (and as I am writing this Peace Heavy mk does a post with an even better description. But yeah, Dir en grey weren't really totally new stuff when they first appeared)
 

[rebelstrik 111]

with the bands changing the style of their music with each album or even release its hard to catogorize them.

[nullmoon 784]

Thanks for your responses guys and for confirming that I'm not alone

It's really weird because I remember reading Zess' post which essentially pointed out that VK is more of a subculture (if anything) rather than a genre of music. As a result I assumed that there were some kind of super secret genres that I was missing, but I guess I was mistaken.

 

So basically...

 

The term 'visual kei' is not a genre of music, yet due to the complexity of the VK scene this term is the only way to encapsulate the form. Due to the sheer amount of genres being used, there is only one genre (which is in fact not a genre) which can describe this ever changing style and that is, confusingly, visual kei!

[Gizorz 24]

Not sure how correct this is, i'm not that great with genres and I'm not gonna pretend this is 100% correct but it's something, I've seen Japanese people label the bands you asked about as bellow (or at least the ones I know).
But that's just for visual-kei subgenres and they're classified by looks, not by sound so if you're looking for proper genres this isn't gonna help but whatever.

 

Kagrra - koteosa

Alice Nine - koteosa

Versailles - tanbi kei (or simply kotekote if you're not being too particular)

Ayabie - koteosa

Lycaon - koteosa but I guess they're now labeling themselves as  "ero kei" whatever the fuck that means

D'espairsray - koteosa or kobushi kei or both I'm not sure

The GazettE - koteosa and now also kobushi kei

Girugamesh - same as above

DIR EN GREY - started as kotekote, then went on to kobushi and now they're "not visual anymore"

Luna Sea, Glay etc - they don't really have a vkei subgenre I suppose because back when they first started there weren't any subgenres

Grieva - kotekote

Miyavi - kotekote in Dué le quartz and then I don't have a clue he just did whatever until coming up with Neo Visual kei and now he's not visual anymore.

Rentrer en Soi - kotekote

 

A lot of things can be labeled as koteosa as you can see, it's basically just a less extreme version of kotekote. Also Kobushi just refers to bands who don't want their fans to do all these lame dances and be cool and fist pump and headbang instead so I'm not even sure why it's a genre.

 

Please correct me if I'm wrong tho.  Also there's more genres but I'm also feeling lazy.

[miyuu 40]

Hi guys,

I've been listening to Visual Kei for years now but I still have absolutely no idea how to 'genre-ify' (is there a word for this?! Categorise I guess?) 99% of it. I'm totally cool with categorising Oshare Kei and Nagoya Kei because they're the only types I really feel comfortable labelling. With stuff like Crossfaith, I just bung it into a 'J-Metal' folder so as to distinguish it from Western stuff.

 

However, I have a ton of bands who I don't know how to categorise. As a result I simply put them under Visual Kei, which according to this site is highly incorrect! Some guidance on the following bands would be really appreciated!

 

-Bands like Kagrra

-Bands like Kra

-Bands like Alice Nine

-Bands like Versailles

-00's bands which had a lot of shouty stuff (early NoGoD, Ayabie, Lolita23q etc)

-Bands like Alsdead/Deluhi/old Lycaon/Heartless etc

-Bands like new Lycaon

-Bands like D'espairsray

-Bands like The GazettE, who I guess sorta links to Girugamesh now?

-DIR EN GREY!!! (I guess they are in a genre of their own? People say their older albums are similar to old VK but I just don't see it. Were many bands doing songs like Myaku?!)

-Older bands like Luna Sea, Glay etc

-Copycat bands like Grieva (would they be the same as above?)

-Miyavi...?

-Punk bands like The Piass

-Rentrer en Soi? What would they be...?

 

Sorry, this is pretty messy but any help would be great! It would be cool to put a genre on shuffle and not come across songs that have nothing in common. 

 

 

first of all they are all rock and you tag them as visual kei. because all the bands that dress like this go under this category in japan

whater music they play.

usually most of them are rock or pop rock or rock/alternative/nu metal.

you think visual kei is a sound basically because most of them  mix the above genres or just are one of the above.

some put punk or symphonic metal ,gothic elements or  etc etc but every single one of them can be in a music category if they weren't dressing visual.

 

i am not an expert in genres but it goes something like this

 

 dir en grey

old->obviously old school visual kei sound. probably is alternative rock . a simple way to describe it

new deg --> alternative /experimental rock /nu metal /metal

(old school deg has more pop&rock elements but new has more metal)

 

i can do this with most of the bands you wrote but i am bored

 

i think the confusion starts and the funny thing is because other genres like alternative rock or metal or nu metal or punk etc etc

have their own dressing code and style.

that makes bands that dress visual kei outsiders and their own category. but if they would stop dressing noone would call them visual kei and that is the main proof vkei is not a music genre and it's just a dress code.

also i am under the impression you can succed more easy if you turn visual kei than being a random indie band.

so many bands decide to go this way. a choice that doesn't exist ouside japan

 

EDIT: OOPS sorry you mean if they are for example nagoya kei or kote kote kei and stuff? different subgenres in visual kei are you asking?? then go with the above answer or just visual kei (i got confused with the post about zess)

[Peace Heavy mk II 7200]

Wait, are we talking about musical genres or different costume styles?

[miyuu 40]

i don't know i got confused. but now if you think about it the subgenres in visual kei mostly are about clothes& styling.not the music.

you know nagoya kei has more dark sound or kote kote is the old school sound. but is about clothes again mostly

 

edit:did the vkei subgenres died? what the fuck is called what  every new band now is doing.neo visual kei. nu visual keI? LOL

[TheBistroButcher666 228]

Dude, just do whatever works best for you.

Honestly I tag most of my Japanese music as just Japanese. Some artist that don't fall under wishy washy genre like say Sabbat I'll label them as their appropriate genre.

Now if you tag things poorly on Last.fm IMA CUT YOU >:U

Otherwise if you're on the interbutts recommending something to a new listener, then use genres that are descriptive and avoid using vague wishy washy genres like Visual Kei or Jrock or J metal and stupid shit like that. Ugh and calling a band J metal or Jrock is so weeabooish and people that do that need to drink acid. You don't call Blind Guardian Gmetal or Kukrynsky R-rock or Megadeth Ametal. I feel like doing that will unfairly stigmatized the band as some sorta animu theme song band and driving away potential serious listeners.

Oh and another rule of mine is I never classify a VK band by the clothing. I label Versailles as Symphonic/Power Metal, not Aristocratic Vampire Kei Metal.

[kai_desu 340]

... I label Versailles as Symphonic/Power Metal, not Aristocratic Vampire Kei Metal.

 

LOL.

 

But to the topic.

 

(Unfortunately) you can't really define a band in it's entirety within a certain genre. I think the only way you can get away with this to some degree is defining each band album into a genre - which isn't a part of any music software that I know of.

 

As Arith said, do whatever works for you. There really is no right or wrong in this matter, it's something that will help you identify a bands sound and relation to others.

 

I personally tag 99% of my stuff as just "J-Rock" to keep it separate from my other music (which isn't that much honestly). I do this only because I like being able to listen to just Japanese music at times, and it's easy to just select the J-Rock genre and hit play.

 

But people, for the love of god please stop tagging the genre as visual kei. kthxbai.

[Biopanda 2675]

LOL.

 

But to the topic.

 

(Unfortunately) you can't really define a band in it's entirety within a certain genre. I think the only way you can get away with this to some degree is defining each band album into a genre - which isn't a part of any music software that I know of.

 

As Arith said, do whatever works for you. There really is no right or wrong in this matter, it's something that will help you identify a bands sound and relation to others.

 

I personally tag 99% of my stuff as just "J-Rock" to keep it separate from my other music (which isn't that much honestly). I do this only because I like being able to listen to just Japanese music at times, and it's easy to just select the J-Rock genre and hit play.

 

But people, for the love of god please stop tagging the genre as visual kei. kthxbai.

I tag things as VK because there's no ID3 field for "scene" and sometimes you just want to listen to some trannies, ya know?

[TheBistroButcher666 228]

Technically majority of the Japanese music I have is Visual Kei but I felt it would be an insult to tag my nonVisual Japanese music as that lolololol.

[Gizorz 24]

Wait, are we talking about musical genres or different costume styles?

 

Wasn't sure either but since OP mentioned nagoya kei I figured I'd provide some vkei subgenres

[seikun 317]

Who cares about genre in Visual Kei. Although I firmly think Visual Kei developed a musical style during the late 90's based on bands like Baiser and the model was I don't care much about genre in Visual Kei because I like it to be free for inspiration as it comes.

[nullmoon 784]

It's just a way of making it easier to shuffle music etc plus it would be nice to have a term which differentiates Girugamesh from, say, Hime Ichigo XD

[JukaForever 758]

Isn't one oshare the other isn't

[StriderSubzero 53]

I think a lot depends on whether you consider the "look" of a band to be relevant to their genre. I don't at all.

 

A lot of stuff like old Kuroyume I just tag as "Gothic Rock" because even though the drumming is more Darkthrone than Joy Division, in general it sounds like gothic rock to me. Bands like Merry Go Round sound similar, but use a lot of blues scales in their composition... but calling them "Blues Rock" would be insane, so they are tagged as "Gothic Rock" as well.

 

When you get to newer stuff like NoGod, Gazette, and Rentrer en Soi, "Hard Rock" or "Alternative Metal" is probably the most appropriate. The weird shuffling, pseudo-bluesy, rockabilly style that Gazette do occasionally is harder to classify; honestly in their earlier days they sounded much more punk, and occasionally even a little ska. Cali≠Gari occasionally delve into surf rock like "Maguro" but they also sound like a post-punk band sometimes—maybe something like The Birthday Party. Pierrot started playing some sort of gothic rock/New Wave fusion, but songs like "Psychedelic Lover" are totally pop-punk.

 

Dir en grey have been fluctuating between melodic death metal, sludge metal, metalcore, and various other genres as of late, so "Alternative Metal" is just an easier description. Versailles sound like a power metal throwback band to me—I could see them being tagged as either "Power Metal" or "Speed Metal." The vocals are different, but otherwise they sound like an offshoot of X Japan with a little Judas Priest thrown in... and maybe more keyboards.

 

If you want to just listen to Japanese stuff in iTunes, why not make a playlist...?

[nullmoon 784]

It's more to do with listening to certain genres WITHIN Japanese music but thanks for your insight

[nullmoon 784]

@JukaForever- exactly, therefore there must be some way of categorising bands other than 'it's VK'

[JukaForever 758]

How about the way they look? Most of how they look typically corresponds to vibe of their music

[nullmoon 784]

Definitely! I just wondered if there were official terms I can use.