Help regarding Visual Kei popularity

[yumione 0]

it really depends on the location and type of bands, Gazette, Alice Nine, Gackt, or old legends lik X japan, Luna Sea etc are pretty big in Japan, 90% of the Visual bands are not like that and mostly play local. In such a crowded country and with a large music scene selling 2500 cd's is nothing. Even 10000 cd's is just indies there. So they might seem to have plenty of fans (and not even that is by far always the case) its just a subculture that became a bit smaller and became a more steady scene past 10 years just like many other subcultures that had a boom in Japan. Japan is just too diverse for that.

The view on the visual scene simple depends the people and crowds you ask about it, many japanese like the ikemen (pretty boy, host boy look) type of men that play music, some think it is vulgar and dont like it. Same as westerners sometimes seem to think all japanese are all androgyn thin goodlooking boys.

But the major bands area really big in Japan, indie bands are small but considered great and big here.

[Peace Heavy mk II 7200]

They're actually making a weekly post about the topic up until September. That's the 2nd post so far, so I'm interested to see how the whole thing turns out.

Here's the schedule:

I. June 5: Introducing Globalizing Visual Kei: A Web Series

II. June 12: Behind the Scenes of Visual Kei

III. June 19: The Rise of Visual Kei — US and Central/South America

IV. June 26: The Rise of Visual Kei — Europe, Oceania and East Asia

V. July 3: Interview with Jimi Aoma

VI. July 10: Musician Interview Excerpts

VII. July 17: Visual Kei and Anime

VIII. July 24: The Business Side of Visual Kei: Interview Excerpts

IX. July 31: Glam Rock, Visual Rock and Visual Inspired Artists

X. August 7: The Visual Kei Fan Scene

XI. August 14: The Digital Era: Marketing Overseas

XII. August 21: Interview with Kiwamu, Starwave Records

XIII. August 28: Visual Kei Today and the Future of Visual Kei

XIV. September 4: Full Survey Results for Worldwide (6,384 votes)

[Number Girl 48]

"Interview with Kiwamu"

Oh, god. Betting $100 he'll say something about piracy or rude overseas fans.

[LIDL 692]

Interesting read so far on JaME.

Don't quite know what to expect from the one with Kiwi interview later.

He may sounds as pretentious as he ever been, but i will still read it anyway.

Maybe there'll be more insights

The "Anime and VK" topic sounds interesting as well.

Looking forward.

[nekkichi 6043]

In such a crowded country and with a large music scene selling 2500 cd's is nothing. Even 10000 cd's is just indies there. So they might seem to have plenty of fans (and not even that is by far always the case) its just a subculture that became a bit smaller and became a more steady scene past 10 years just like many other subcultures that had a boom in Japan. Japan is just too diverse for that.

just fyi, but 10 k sale numbers is indie gazette (circa 2004)/major ayabie sales, and they're quite hard to reach for an indie band.

[dannemannen 69]

Visual kei is getting more and more popular here in japan recently. They always have a big corner in the cd-shops and releases by quite famous bands always reach the oricon chart along other j-pop artists nowadays. Haha, even golden bomber got 4th place with their new single Boku Quest, above and under them were akb48 and B'z.

So it's sure getting bigger and bigger, atleast compared to before when it was more of an underground thing.

Now bands such as dir en grey, gazette, alice nine, sid, Sug and so on sells out their tickets for budoukan concerts in 10 mins.

That said, the average japanese dont know much/care at all. It's a kind of a hate or love thing over here... and my gf isnt on my side ;P

[*littlelamb 78]

Oh I remember reading the newest Tokio Passi (2010), it's a humorously written Finnish travel guide about Japan, and for the section about music the author had interviewed some music industry guy to hear about what's in at the moment. And the first (or second) thing he mentioned was Visual Kei! I was like whaaat? But he didn't name any bands, just went on to name drop popular artists, stuff like Tokyo Jihen and The Cro-Magnons.

[yumione 0]

In such a crowded country and with a large music scene selling 2500 cd's is nothing. Even 10000 cd's is just indies there. So they might seem to have plenty of fans (and not even that is by far always the case) its just a subculture that became a bit smaller and became a more steady scene past 10 years just like many other subcultures that had a boom in Japan. Japan is just too diverse for that.

just fyi, but 10 k sale numbers is indie gazette (circa 2004)/major ayabie sales, and they're quite hard to reach for an indie band.

Major doesnt mean big. But it is not that uncommon. Bigger indie bands reach that amount more than you think. But it is nothing compared to the times ten amount of sells real big acts make. It is true that a small time indie band must already be happy to sell 500. But if they reach a certain plateau, lets say they are under contract of a bigger indie label then it is not uncommon to grow in sales. 12012, Vidoll and many bigger indie bands of that era had such sales.

[Peace Heavy mk II 7200]

In such a crowded country and with a large music scene selling 2500 cd's is nothing. Even 10000 cd's is just indies there. So they might seem to have plenty of fans (and not even that is by far always the case) its just a subculture that became a bit smaller and became a more steady scene past 10 years just like many other subcultures that had a boom in Japan. Japan is just too diverse for that.

just fyi, but 10 k sale numbers is indie gazette (circa 2004)/major ayabie sales, and they're quite hard to reach for an indie band.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure most indie bands that are "popular" in the West don't even break 5,000. If I remember correctly, the Kiryu only sold around 4,500 on their singles before their second album (which is dramatically better than when they were unsigned) and Megaromania didn't even break 500 on most releases ( ). Even Rentrer en Soi's best seller only hit about 2000 sells and it was their Kein no something something / the other mini-album the released at the same time back in the early 2000's, way before everyone here loved them and started posting "I'll wait for this band to revive no matter how many years it takes [20934506023]." It's irony at it's best!

[nekkichi 6043]

well 12012 are major and sell like shit, even worse than on ucp;

deathgaze are selling around 500-1000 copies per release, yet not disbanding;

rentrer en soi's sales dropped down, but their marketing changed dramatically and their production costs were quite low.

I think there're still chances they might go back (seeing baroque rumors of coming back, for example), and I see no real reason for them not reuniting. Satsuki isn't 2nd Mana or 3rd Gackt or 4th miyavi, nowhere close to each.

There's a reason you can't have kagerou or the studs back, but with those guys it might settle down eventually, once our innocent diva gets bored of instant ramen and happy meals.

[yumione 0]

In such a crowded country and with a large music scene selling 2500 cd's is nothing. Even 10000 cd's is just indies there. So they might seem to have plenty of fans (and not even that is by far always the case) its just a subculture that became a bit smaller and became a more steady scene past 10 years just like many other subcultures that had a boom in Japan. Japan is just too diverse for that.

just fyi, but 10 k sale numbers is indie gazette (circa 2004)/major ayabie sales, and they're quite hard to reach for an indie band.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure most indie bands that are "popular" in the West don't even break 5,000. If I remember correctly, the Kiryu only sold around 4,500 on their singles before their second album (which is dramatically better than when they were unsigned) and Megaromania didn't even break 500 on most releases ( ). Even Rentrer en Soi's best seller only hit about 2000 sells and it was their Kein no something something / the other mini-album the released at the same time back in the early 2000's, way before everyone here loved them and started posting "I'll wait for this band to revive no matter how many years it takes [20934506023]." It's irony at it's best!

and thats the largest problem, the bands that are popular here are necessarily popular in Japan. Rentrer en Soi sold more though, i cant recall how much exactly but a few releases where pretty well received.

and you kinda confirm it, if a small band like Kiryu already sell around 4500 that more popular bands do better ofcourse. Kiryu is really not big at all in Japan.

its damn hard to find the previous sales amounts of past releases though.

but if you walk trough shibuya and shinjuku and you see large amount of posters from a cerain band you can know for sure it is a band that exceeds normal sales or else that type of marketing would be far to expensive.

and depends about what indie bands you talk, many metal bands who are considered indie (roadrunner record, nuclear blast etc bands really sell that amount if you combine all selling channels.

[flikflak 41]

If you want the list of single/album sales, there's one for a couple of bands but it's not been updated regularly.

http://oriconv.seesaa.net/category/8572856-1.html

[nekkichi 6043]

^ Herpes posted it sometime ago.

I wonder if Oricon is publishing sale numbers, not just comparison charts - that would be interesting to look at.

[yumione 0]

If you want the list of single/album sales, there's one for a couple of bands but it's not been updated regularly.

http://oriconv.seesaa.net/category/8572856-1.html

its more like not real time updated at all, some isnt even updated at all after only a week.

[nekkichi 6043]

I assume it was last updated at Feb., 2nd.

[Glamour 4]

Well, most things have been said already, so I'll just add my two cents.

When I mention I'm a fan of VK to Japanese friends, they usually tell me they enjoy Janne de Arc, Gackt and stuff. And they don't know what Acid Black Cherry is. Again, most of these things have been mentioned already.

I've been to many live shows, and if there is a male in the crowd, it's either just me, or one other. That male was either taken there by their female friends, or is not straight.

I'll take one recent example of a indie live show I attended at Shibuya o-nest. The indie show included around 8 bands; I went to see 8-eit personally. None of the bands were anything close to being visual, 8-eit being the closest, but I was expecting a generally varied crowd by the time they appeared. But, they were the last band to play and by this time, the many men that had attended the show had left the room and I was the only guy in the room. Anyway, I enjoyed the live performance thoroughly and I think you'll find many more males online that enjoy VK then you'd find in Japan. Because the genre (or sub-genre, if you want) is unique and the closest thing we have to it is glam rock.

I do find it a bit surprising the VK scene is not more familiar to anyone generally interested in rock music, though the genres of course vary. Reason being is that a VK band is seemingly formed every week. But, the amount of disbands somehow are more common.

Anyway, the venues of the VK bands are always small. Unless it's a major band such as the GazettE, the band will be playing in one of the common tiny livehouses like Ruido K3, Holiday Shinjuku, and so on. Takadanobaba AREA is actually quite large compared to these, but you'll still be shoulder to shoulder with other people. That's the only thing not good about these tiny venues. Often you'll be limited to standing in a single spot and if you're to move, someone is going to fall over.

Personally, VK has been a large part of my musical past. One reason (of many) that I also enjoy it, is because it's indie and the fan bases for some of these extremely obscure bands can be very small, but the music performed can be priceless. They're like hidden gems.

Perhaps this is going on for too long, but I'm just typing what is coming to mind. Perhaps I'll add more later.

[Yasupon 18]

Live in the U.S, most people here don't know anything about VK and the ones that do listen to major, which most people are saying. I can only imagine how true all the comments regarding their popularity in their own country would be, that the major bands like Dir En Grey and Gazette make people aware of the music, but fewer people actually listen, let alone to the indie bands.