The general Metal discussion thread

[Bear 1817]

Sunbather was disappointing. Those god damn fillers. Should have done as they did with their superb debut album and just released something short, because without the fillers Sunbather wouldn't stand back to Roads of Judah the way it does now.

[relentless 254]

I would have enjoyed Sunbather a lot more if the production wasn't so "muddy". They seem like a band that would probably be better to see live anyway.

[Bear 1817]

Really? I think the album is almost overproduced. Would have loved for it to be a bit more lo-fi. More like the debut album. Still consider the debut to me a masterpiece though. Brilliant album.

 

 

And this year have started off great too as far as metal goes. Been som really, really good releases so far.

[relentless 254]

It's going to be a great year for tours as well: I'm seeing Between the Buried and me with Deafheaven and Intronaut in a week, then The Ocean with Scale the Summit next month.

 

 

And yeah. Sunbather had a few weaknesses that was really in terms of production. The album was released through Deathwish, a hardcore label notorious for its bare sound and mediocre production.

 

The Carrier:

 

 

Deathwish mostly specializes in offshoots of Hardcore; but what's a constant is that typical punk rock production that's bare and basic in terms of its mixing. It's hard to distinguish between guitar parts, especially with the bass barely audible amongst the wall of noise. Sunbather, I feel, suffered in the same vein but this time it had to do with vocals. The vocals blend into the rest of the music, and that's the problem. The screams (without much variation) remain constantly in the background as if it was done in an empty room. There's even a slight echo to the vocals in some tracks.

 

Some people can say things like "well that's what black metal inspired music sounds like"; but that doesn't excuse that the album was released under a label with similarly poorly produced records. I guess it could be preference as to how you want music to sound; but when the vocals are presented as practically an after thought, it bothers me a little.

[Bear 1817]

I'm not quite sure what you're getting at here. Might be because I am half asleep at the moment. But are you saying the production have its weaknesses because of the label the album was released on?

[sai 868]

I really have no idea whether to classify these guys as genre-wise since I've seen them tagged as post rock, post-black metal and black metal with shoegaze influences, so I'm just going to do it here.

 

I'm very pleased with the new Alcest release, I mean boy oh boy, Delivrance is such a killer track. It's probably their weakest release since their first album but it's still good. I don't even really miss the metal elements tbqh, it still has that nice Alcest atmosphere.

[Bear 1817]

It's not metal, but considering Alcest have been a metal band for 15 years before releasing something that isn't metal I don't see a single reason not to talk bout them in a metal thread. Their weakest release since the demo, yet a brilliant album. Says all about Alcest's qualities to be honest. And I am not sold on "Away" yet. I think it is a good song, but it doesn't quite fit with the rest of the album, much due to the song being sung in English. Not too fond of that when the rest is sung in French, a language superior to English when it comes to music.

[sai 868]

I agree about Away. What I like about Alcest is just how well the French language fits with the atmosphere of their music. I'm not sure who the singer is in most of these parts (but I assume it's Neige?) but it's just really gentle and calm and very melodious. French as a language itself is a lot more elegant than English anyway, even when regularly spoken.

 

Oddly the only bands that are similar to Alcest that I enjoy are also French. Ito gave me a similar artist who sang in English once but it just didn't sound as great as it did in French.

[Bear 1817]

It's Neige, aight. He's got a beautiful voice if you ask me. Perfect for this kind of music. He's also got what's perhaps the most inhuman voice ever (ref: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLSUQYzqXZ0). Them shrieks, baby. Them shrieks. Insane. Best vocal performance ever PERIOD. Så nasty, rotten and disgusting it almost makes you sick. He's not exactly doing a bad job here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9erbq49fEUQ) either. Christ almighty.

 

 

You'll find some similarity in Old Silver Key (Drudkh + Neige) where he sings in English. And obviously Les Discrets.

[sai 868]

Zess recommended me Les Discrets and I managed to get their 2012 album, but I haven't heard their other releases yet. I should probably get to that, I love this kind of music for gloomy mornings especially.

 

I love Neige's voice, probably one of my favourite vocalists outside of Japanese music. I'm not that big on screams in music but I feel like in most of Alcests stuff it is there because it adds to the song, not just thrown in to make it sound "br00tal" or any of the sorts. I'm not that educated yet in these parts of music but I'd love to learn more/discover more similar artists (because hey, I'm always looking to expand my musical preferences).

[Bear 1817]

Quality wise the debut of Les Discrets is more or less the same as the second one, but sound wise they're actually a bit different. The first sure has more post-metal elements in it. Brilliant band!

 

Agalloch could probably be a nice place to continue. They've always developed their sound but without losing their own identity. Started of as a very black metalish band but went further and further away from black metal for many years, before returning to their roots with the masterpiece that is Marrow of the Spirit before releasing their most blackened, dark and brutal release in form of another masterpiece, Faustian Echoes. The Mantle would probably be a fine lace to start though. It's where I started as well. Though I prefer some of their other albums today, but it's still an amazing album.

 

[Jigsaw9 6783]

Dammit, the new Mayhem song is slaying me so hard.

 

 

Single out at the end of April, album dropping at the end of May. CAN'T WAIT.

[Bear 1817]

Really? I thought it was pretty boring. A boring, generic mix of Nidingr, Thorns and Keep of Kalessin's "Reclaim".

[Jigsaw9 6783]

I'm not too well-versed in black metal (I like to listen to a bit of all kinds of music), so it was good enough for me.

 

Also loved the production! I wasn't a fan of the sound of their previous album.

[Bear 1817]

I understand. It might grow on me, but after a few listens I'm not impressed at all. I know they've got a new songwriter, and that's probably the most disappointing part of this. Teloch's a great songwriter as heard in Nidingr (amazing, and sadly overseen/underrated band) and I expect him to come up with something better than this. Especially the first half of the song's close to awful. Second half's a lot better, but not good enough for something with Mayhem written on the cover.

 

I was not a fan of the two past albums either, but Ordo... is a record worthy of the Mayhem logo, despite me not liking it very much. At least not when it came. Should probably give it a spin again someday.

[Jigsaw9 6783]

^ Tho bear in mind that I probably am more excited about the new album coming than to actually calmly "weigh" the track, so I'm kind of biased.

 

Also yeah, I agree that the last one was distinctly "Mayhem", there are even parts of it I enjoy -- it just gets hard to listen to, with that production (which was probably sort of part of the concept xD).

[Bear 1817]

I see. I am looking forward to the album as Mayhem have always managed to surprised with what they do, on both good and bad. But after this I just won't keep my hopes up.

 

 

This is Mayhem's "new" guitarists' main band. Hellhammer on drums on the last song (hence the shitty drum sound, something he doesn't know shit about). You can hear that some of the riffing is very similar.

[Jigsaw9 6783]

I definitely hear the similarity! I might check these guys out, they seem pretty good. I already sampled some Thorns last night cuz a friend of mine said the new Mayhem track reminded him of them.

[Bear 1817]

They are very good. Their first album owe a lot to Dødheimsgard's "Satanic Art" and "666 International" too, which are two amazing albums.

 

 

I also mentioned Thorns in one earlier post here talking about the new song. Brilliant band, and one of the most important ones in the creation of the second wave black metal. The bands' first demo were just guitar and bass, yet it's perhaps the biggest and most important inspiration for Norwegian second wave bands as far as the riffing goes. He's just as important for the "Norwegian riffing" as  Euronymous (of Mayhem, who was killed by Varg of Burzum, with Snorre as the driver. Heh) was, if not more. Snorre W. Ruch, who IS Thorns, also contibuted some riffs for Mayhem's legendary "De mysteriis Dom Sathanas" as well as finishing some of Dead's unfinished lyrics. Thorns' self titled album are one of the 10-15 best black metal albums ever. Aldrahn of Dødheimsgard contributes with vocals on 3 of the songs, Satyr of Satyricon on 4 songs, Snorre on one and with Hellhammer on drums. It's been talk of a new album for 8-9 years now but we're still waiting. Anyway, "Thorns" is a massive album. Massive!

[Jigsaw9 6783]

Thanks for the additional background info. Cool how much influence Snorre/Thorns had on the genre! I've now listened to the album, it is indeed a nice and enjoyable one -- I was a bit surprised by the industrial elements but they work real well, especially on Shifting Channels for example.

 

Seems like I still have a long way to go in terms of black metal. xD Gonna give Dødheimsgard a listen too, later, after Thorns and Nidingr. Thanks for the mentions / recommendations!

[Bear 1817]

Yeah. While I consider the album more or less perfect, there's one standout track that's just a horse's head above the rest, Vortex. Pure magic! Well, the whole album is.

 

Dødheimsgard's a bit of a mixed bag of candy. They've evolved a lot and changed their sound a lot for every single album, from straight forward, yet original black metal on "Kronet til Konge" to black/thrash on "Monumental Possession" to avant-garde inspired black metal on "Satanic Art" to the fucked up insane industrial avant-garde (black) metal album "666 International" (will not mention Supervillain Outcast in this because it's a very poor album compared to the rest). "Satanic Art" is probably the place to start to be honest.

 

1. Satanic Art 10/10

2. Kronet til Konge 10/10

3. Monumental Possession 9,5/10

4. 666 International 9/10

[Jigsaw9 6783]

Wow, thanks a lot for the descriptions and recommendations! Honestly I enjoy all those subgenres of black metal (especially the black-thrash and industrial kind), so already it sounds pretty neat.

 

edit: Speaking of industrial influences, do you like Anaal Nathrakh? They're one of my faves when it comes to "br00tal" music, and their previous album was pretty solid too. They're recording the next full-length as we speak, should be something to look forward to.

[Bear 1817]

No problem, and there's plenty where those recommendations came from.

 

 

As for Anaal Nathrakh, I'm a huge fan of of their mid-era. Domine Non Es Dignus and Eschaton are both great albums. The latter is a masterpiece. But after Eschaton they kinda fucked up IMO. Got generic and just watered down their previous albums with lots of metalcore and shit that I don't like at all. Virus Bomb is a great song, but that's also the only song I like from after Eschaton. Not a fan of their stuff from before Domine Non Es Dignus either. "Oh, look at us, we can play fast as fuck!!!" Yeah, fine, whatever. Meeeeh.

[Jigsaw9 6783]

Hmm I see. I saw this so-called metalcore influence mentioned on several occasions but I can't really hear it or put my finger on it... they definitely changed somewhat, that's for sure. I like almost all of their stuff equally, tho I have to admit I'm a bit more partial towards their more recent works (especially In the Constellation of the Black Widow).

 

Btw just listening to a Thorns compilation of old demos and such, and came across these "drumless" tracks that you mentioned. Very interesting.

[Bear 1817]

Take THIS song for example. 53 second out and you get some chugging that's the exact same as a billion death- and metalcore bands. They've always had some chigging, but not to this extent, and not in a similar way to this. I just can't dig it, hating the living shit out of modern metalcore and so on. They also became very, very predictable after Eschaton, just like In Flames did become very predictable over the years. You hear a part and you just know there will be clean vocals on it. Goes for both bands. And Killswitch Engage and so on as well. Can't dig it.

 

Indeed it is. I prefer the full lenght, but the Stigma Diabolicum compilation with their early stuff from both Stigma Diabolicum and Thors are great as well. Very unique stuff.