Cheating, Lies, and Deception in CS:GO

[Zeus 7997]

A very popular online multiplayer shooter hosts one of the largest legal gambling rings in the country. There's a ton of information out there so I'll link a video and distill some points below for discussion

 

 

• There is a large underground gambling network in CS:GO in which you can exchange skins for cash. Prizes can range anywhere from a few dollars to a few thousand dollars.
• Anyone as young as 14 can gamble. They don't check to make sure you are of legal age.
• There's some legal loophole in that this isn't illegal since you bet on skins and sell the skins for cash, but it's still gambling by another name.
• Net intake of these networks raked in $2.3B last year. 2.3 billion.
• Valve is accused of allowing these third party networks to tap into the Steam API so facilitate easy gambling.
• Class action lawsuit has already been filed.
• Video goes into a particular example of how several prominent CS:GO players founded a website for trading skins and sponsored it on YouTube through a set of videos showing them winning it big in just a few minutes, tempting others to try their luck at gambling. Kinda scummy how the owner of the websites makes videos of him gambling on his own website and winning big over other people...

 

Any aspiring lawyers on MH? This looks like a nice payday.

[tetsu_sama69 1119]

Yeah I saw that when it popped up. As much as I am a fan of Steam it's sad to hear they're aware of it and I do hope they do something about making it safer for younger crowds.. But it's even more shame that these guys knew what they were doing but hey, ignorance is bliss. If you just act like you didn't have your hands in it since the start then you can't possibly be doing ANYTHING wrong.

[peffy 3568]

I'm mostly curious as to why people would gamble/spend that much money for some shitty paint on their virtual guns/knives...

 

According to a PCGamer article from 2 months ago, the most expensive item is the M9 Bayonet: Crimson Web, ~$5900 (2360 keys)

 

It's a knife. With some red paint splattered on it. ................ $5900.

 

I spent like 3000 yen on some alternate outfits for Tales of Xillia and I regret it every day of my life. =_=

But at least I got anime ladies in sexy outfits for that money. 

 

Anyway, I can't really say much on the topic. I rarely use Steam, and I don't watch these types of Youtubers/Twitch streamers. Clearly they're doing something that's completely scummy, if not actually illegal, and they should be stopped. yep.

 

by the way, found this screenshot of the dude logged in as "CSGOLOTTOBOT" while streaming... ?!?!?!

 

Edited July 4, 2016 by peffy

[Chi 2624]

What....Syndicate owns that shady website? I was never a fan of him but that's...well...disappointing.

[Zeus 7997]

The YouTubers could be looking at real jail time for this stunt.

 

http://www.gamesradar.com/counter-strike-gambling-youtubers-could-be-looking-at-real-jail-time/

 

What would you do if got caught promoting a highly profitable Counter-Strike: Global Offensive gambling website without disclosing the fact that you owned it? Well, Trevor "TmarTn" Martin found himself in that situation earlier this week, and he chose to post an apology video where he sits in the foyer of his expensive house and makes a sad face at his dog. And then delete it. Thankfully, whenever YouTube closes a window, it opens another and immediately re-uploads the video on another account.

"My connection to CSGO Lotto has been a matter of public record since the company was first organized in December of 2015, however I do feel like I owe you guys an apology," Martin says in the video, referring to the articles of incorporation, I guess (because everybody watching YouTube videos definitely checks the articles of incorporation for all mentioned businesses). "I am sorry to each and every one of you who felt like that was not made clear enough to you. I truly honestly hope you guys give me an opportunity to earn your trust back."

"I believe that every game offered on CSGO Lotto has been legitimate, and I'm committed to making sure that that remains true."

A quick primer in case you're not familiar: CS:GO lets players trade and sell in-game items like weapon skins for real money, some of which can go for thousands of dollars. Using this system and tools from Valve, external sites like CSGO Lotto can set up lotteries and other games of chance where players pool, win, and lose items with significant monetary value. Legal systems around the world are still conflicted on whether this fits for regulatory purposes, but functionally speaking, it's gambling.

Back to Martin and his dog: it's impossible to say whether his videos were rigged, since we can't see the admin side of CSGO Lotto. It doesn't really matter, though: the fact that Martin and CSGO Lotto co-owner Tom "ProSyndicate" Cassell ran the site and could theoretically change the odds to win big for their undisclosed advertisements makes it ethically unacceptable. Even less acceptable than feeding their audience undisclosed advertisements for a site they semi-secretly own, I mean.

Deceiving adults is bad enough. But when you consider that kids make up a huge portion of the audience for these videos, and that CSGO Lotto only has a bog standard "You must be 18 or older" checkbox to register (the privacy agreement even said "13 or older"), it gets even worse. Here's the general attitude toward the situation rendered, very appropriately, as a YouTube meme.

Polygon reports Martin and Cassell have been added to a lawsuit against Valve for enabling and profiting from the CS:GO gambling scene, though only each party's (vast) wealth is at risk from that. New York attorney Ryan Morrison, who focuses his case work on eSports and gaming, told ESPN that won't be the end of it.

"What this did do, which is in my opinion wonderful, is really open up the eyes of people who can put criminal charges forward," Morrison said, because when attorneys general see these high profile civil cases and controversies pop up they're more likely to pursue them. "So instead of this just being, oh no, ProSyndicate with his $70 million house is going to lose $1 million, this is instead going to be all these people are very much looking at real jail time." 

[Zeus 7997]

The rabbit hole goes even deeper! YouTube personalities such as PewDiePie have gotten caught taking bribes by Warner Bros. for positive game reviews. Much like the original CS:GO situation this counts as inadequate disclosure on sponsored videos. I don't think PDP will go to jail but it's probably an ugly gaffe that will blow over in a few weeks.

 

The Federal Trade Commission has reached a settlement with Warner Bros. over claims that the publisher failed to disclose that it had paid prominent YouTubers for positive coverage of one of its video games. The FTC charge stated that Warner Bros. deceived customers by paying thousands of dollars to social media "influencers," including YouTube megastar PewDiePie, to cover Middle Earth: Shadow of Mordor without announcing that money had changed hands.

Under the terms of the agreement, Warner Bros. is banned from failing to disclose similar deals in the future, and cannot pretend that sponsored videos and articles are actually the work of independent producers. "Consumers have the right to know if reviewers are providing their own opinions or paid sales pitches," director of the FTC's Bureau of Consumer Protection Jessica Rich said in a statement. "Companies like Warner Brothers need to be straight with consumers in their online ad campaigns."

 

http://www.theverge.com/2016/7/12/12157310/pewdiepie-youtubers-sponsored-videos-ftc-warner-bros

[peffy 3568]

A long time ago.. maybe more than a year ago, I heard rumours about Youtube personalities taking money/gifts from companies to say positive things in their videos. .. I did some digging, and found out that these Shadow of Mordor 'bribes' were actually the rumours I remembered.

http://kotaku.com/the-messy-story-behind-youtubers-taking-money-for-game-1644092214

It is especially interesting that Kotaku claims they received review copies without the contract YouTubers were required to agree to.

 

Quote

It should be noted that most of this was handled by outside marketing firms on the YouTube side, while traditional games press like Kotaku went through Warner Bros. PR. We were offered no such terms and received both console and PC review copies of the game shortly before release. Moreover Kotaku does not accept any sort of deals like this, and our site ads are handled by a sales team that has nothing to do with editorial. In many cases, unfortunately, YouTubers don't have that privilege, instead being forced to juggle their own white-hot opinions in one hand and oftentimes fragile relationships with game companies in the other—a tenuous balance where dropping the ball on either side could shatter everything. Only the biggest YouTubers/networks tend to have separate teams that handle money stuff.

 

It's pretty clear that, to marketers, bribing "social media influencers" has become far more important than bribing established gaming journalists/reviewers/websites.

 

Anyway, I'm pretty shocked that Pewdiepie of all people has been caught doing this. You'd think he was rich enough just from his subscribers/plays alone. Though, based on the Kotaku article, it seems likely that it was the only way he could get a pre-release copy of the game, and he didn't think he was doing anything wrong because he is not a "reviewer" per se. I don't expect him to get any punishment for this. At most, a fine or a requirement to pull the related videos (or add blatant disclaimers to them)... not that it matters anymore, the game is 2 years old.

 

Edited July 12, 2016 by peffy

[Chi 2624]

sorta of related, but at the same time not...and i wanted to post this somewhere lol

this recent event with cs:go lotto made a lot of ppl question other youtubers' vids (about the sponsorship disclosure part) and seems like the media is onto everyone rn...they tried to go for pewdiepie and failed lol (even tried grouping him with the cs:go lotto youtubers)

 

[peffy 3568]

7 hours ago, seurong said:

sorta of related, but at the same time not...and i wanted to post this somewhere lol

this recent event with cs:go lotto made a lot of ppl question other youtubers' vids (about the sponsorship disclosure part) and seems like the media is onto everyone rn...they tried to go for pewdiepie and failed lol (even tried grouping him with the cs:go lotto youtubers)

 

 

The media keeps mentioning Pewdiepie because the original FTC press release specifically names him. And this press release coincidentally came out right after the CSGO scandal began. If you look at my post right above yours, you will see that this WB scandal has been ongoing for 2 years.

 

But yes, grouping him with the CSGO stuff doesn't really make sense, these are two fairly different situations. Pewdiepie himself is only guilty of not disclosing the deal with WB within the video itself. He DID mention it in the video description, but the FTC ruled that that was insufficient disclosure. In any case, I believe the FTC only has beef with WB, not with the Youtubers who accepted the deal.

 

(sorry if any of that was mentioned in the video you linked. I can't watch it because I can't f'n stand that guy's videos, I've never been able to watch more than 30 seconds before I have to stop it)

Edited July 14, 2016 by peffy

[Chi 2624]

yes, all of the things you explained were mentioned in his vid¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

valve said they will take care of the gambling issues...or at least make them cease operations through steam

http://store.steampowered.com/news/22883/

Edited July 14, 2016 by seurong

[Atreides 454]

2 hours ago, peffy said:

 

(sorry if any of that was mentioned in the video you linked. I can't watch it because I can't f'n stand that guy's videos, I've never been able to watch more than 30 seconds before I have to stop it)

 

I can't stand his videos either

 

But Pewdiepie cute

[Chi 2624]

 

[Zeus 7997]

If we're linking more videos about the CS:GOGate then here's The Jimquisition's take on it. Ten minutes of gold worth your time and explains the situation very well.

 

 

 

I haven't gotten further updates on the situation yet but last I heard the two pro streamers are in hot water. If they have any contract endorsements those might be in jeopardy.

 

[Zeus 7997]

Valve has actually decided to save face and throw these guys under the bus indirectly...not like I Expected them to do anything else.

http://kotaku.com/valve-issues-cease-and-desist-letter-to-23-counter-stri-1783975845

 

Counter-Strike gambling sites may not be long for this world, as Valve has sent a letter demanding they change practices in the next 10 days or the company will “pursue all available remedies including without limitation terminating your accounts.”

 

The letter in question first appeared last night, though its validity was questioned. Soon after, one of the most popular Counter-Strike gambling sites, CS:GO Big, uploaded a high-resolution version of the letter andannounced it would be disabling deposits and temporarily shutting down.

[peffy 3568]

Quackenbush is a hell of a name (he's Valve's lawyer)

 

Also, I'm amused that one of the gambling sites is called csgoatse.com

 

I shouldn't be amused by that

 

Anyway, glad to see Valve trying to put a stop to this nonsense, even if they waited for a major shitstorm before acting.

[Zeus 7997]

The case got dismissed.

http://www.lazygamer.net/gaming-news/tmartn-csgo-lotto-win-motion-dismiss/

[tetsu_sama69 1119]

46 minutes ago, Zeus said:

The case got dismissed.

http://www.lazygamer.net/gaming-news/tmartn-csgo-lotto-win-motion-dismiss/

Sad day when people can teach kids how to gamble and get no punishments for it.