Are most jrockbands disbanding because their music doesn't sell?

[dannemannen 69]

There is hardly a day recently without a jrock band disbandment.

I know there is always that one "differences in music" etc, but don't you guys think most actually disband because no one buys their music? Is money one of the biggest reasons after all?

[anadentone 478]

Often times the bands that disband due to musical differences are the bands that never say they've sold out at concerts. I  know people were talking about Shounenki was having a buy one get one free ticket deal because they wanted to sell all the tickets. You won't hear bands like The Gazette or Dir En Grey  break up due to "musical differences". js

[desparejo86 160]

Of course many bands do; no one is going to disband and say "We've decided to break up because no one likes us."

 

There was a band, I think it was Kagrra, that disbanded a few years ago, and a lot of people were mad because apparently someone in their management suggested they call it a day. Some people were arguing that it was absurd to tell a band that they should break up, and that the group should do it as long as they are inspired.

 

The reality is that their career had plateaued; past three albums had hit the same spot on the charts. Management knew they weren't going to get any bigger, but they hadn't hit the level where they were making a lot of money, so it was time to cut their losses and go find jobs while they're still relatively young. That is simply the reality bands have always faced, but it is especially true in the modern age, where 500 units can be the difference between a band getting dropped or making another album.

[BackStabbath 321]

Maybe so in part.  Same thing in what has happening with many music genre, it has become over saturated/unoriginal in sound and looks.Too many are adopting looks and sound that made other bands successful, hoping the same for themselves.  

Not to say that there are not bands worth a listen,but just having to do a bit more digging to find them.

Also, to me, seems more bands worry more about global exposures and becoming famous than actual perfection of their sound/style.

Groups like that seem to have less passion.

 

But, keeping in mind that many bands of vk (especially beginning) are self produced and not usually have much money, so both cd  sale and ticket sale are going to make a big difference compare to a band of a larger promoter/production group. So yes, money is a factor many times.  They do have to pay for studio times, production costs, rentals, etc.

The music industry is risky business in general, so going into a genre of a smaller following is a little more riskier.

 

Probably won't see many bands that last as long as Buck-Tick, D'ERLANGER, X-Japan, Luna Sea or other 90s bands, but they are the ones who popularized the genre and influenced the newer bands...

 

Any case only my opinion. Sorry if it is confusing.

 

 

[Bear 1817]

The vast majority of bands around the world don't earn shit on their music and have to keep regular jobs on the side, making music just a hobby and passion, witch bands usually are more than fine with as they aren't in it for the money to begin with. They're in it for the music and fun of it all, not the money itself, and most hobbies tend to cost a lot of money. It's not unsual for bands to spend a shitload of money on their band without getting nearly as much back in form of money. All musicians want to live off their music, but only a very small percentage gets to do it.

 

Bands that disband because they didn't get popular enough, fast enough, to live off their music are simply in it for the wrong reasons IMO.

 

 

I'm under the impression that it's more usual for newly formed, small VK bands to disband becaue they didn't get big enough fast enough to keep living off it, than it is for bands outside of VK. Weird enough. But I might be wrong.

 

But for big(ger) bands I am sure there's often other reasons as well as the money issuses. If you've been in a band for 10+ years I can totally understand that you want to do something new and different, walking down a different path. And I assume it's easy to get a feeling that you've given all you have and that you simply don't have anything more real to give under that name. I don't don't know.

[seikun 317]

I actually believe that the musical differences thing is true many times because, in the case of Visual Kei, bands tend to mix different musical styles and it could be the case that one member, for instance, wants some jazz incorporated but other member doesn't like jazz so he doesn't want it in their music, they don't come to an agreement and the disagreeing member decides to leave because the music that he envisions is not where the band is going.

[vanivani 558]

The vast majority of bands around the world don't earn shit on their music and have to keep regular jobs on the side, making music just a hobby and passion, witch bands usually are more than fine with as they aren't in it for the money to begin with. They're in it for the music and fun of it all, not the money itself, and most hobbies tend to cost a lot of money. It's not unsual for bands to spend a shitload of money on their band without getting nearly as much back in form of money. All musicians want to live off their music, but only a very small percentage gets to do it.

 

Bands that disband because they didn't get popular enough, fast enough, to live off their music are simply in it for the wrong reasons IMO.

 

 

I'm under the impression that it's more usual for newly formed, small VK bands to disband becaue they didn't get big enough fast enough to keep living off it, than it is for bands outside of VK. Weird enough. But I might be wrong.

 

But for big(ger) bands I am sure there's often other reasons as well as the money issuses. If you've been in a band for 10+ years I can totally understand that you want to do something new and different, walking down a different path. And I assume it's easy to get a feeling that you've given all you have and that you simply don't have anything more real to give under that name. I don't don't know.

 

 

Ya, I agree with this. Musical differences may be a reason, but I bet a lot of the time it has to do with finances.  I would assume visual kei is far more expensive than your average indie band too... All the makeup, costumes, photoshoots, etc. probably add up. I can't imagine how much it costs for all of that on top of studio time, concerts, etc.

[anakuro 847]

I'm inclined to believe that yes money (and declining attendence) is a huge factor in many bands.

 

And if you're going to compare them to other bands around the world and say "but they have jobs and can do it!" I think that's kind of ignoring how difficult it is for vk artists to have a job let alone a decent one. Vk bands have concerts at an insane rate. They pump out music at an insane rate. They have a lot of in stores for their releases. When are they supposed to have time for a job that will support them and their hobby? Many dont--or if they do it's just a part time job. Moreover, in japan when you have piercings and unnaturally colored hair that limits the jobs you can do A LOT. 

[Traxan 148]

Can bands make a living on touring? With the decline in CD sales in the US and elsewhere, bands are now spending years on the road touring. The days of a new album every year are gone and my favorite bands are going 4 years in between records because they tour until they are half dead and then need time to recover.

 

With Japanese bands, though, they are covering a country the size of California and very few ever leave the country. Look at Arch Enemy. In the past year they toured America, then Europe, then Asia, then back to Europe, and now South America. They have been on the road for I believe 18 months now. Japanese bands rarely ever leave the country. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it looks like Babymetal spent the most time outside Japan, which is funny because they should still be in school.

 

Anyway, can bands survive just inside Japan? And if not, is it high time for them to make an attempt to become popular elsewhere? Don't let language be an excuse. Rammstein are huge and sing all their songs in German.

[desparejo86 160]

Anyway, can bands survive just inside Japan? And if not, is it high time for them to make an attempt to become popular elsewhere? Don't let language be an excuse. Rammstein are huge and sing all their songs in German.

 

Strongly disagree with that suggestion. The money isn't there.

 

The visual scene has a very efficient little business model that has developed over the past 25 or so years. The market is niche, but the people in the industry have done a great job of finding ways to maximize profits (multiple cd versions, FC, merch, etc) while operating a business model that helps+encourages the formation of new bands, and streamlines their growth until they either make it and go major or disband. The management, labels, etc make enough to keep the doors open, the band members might not make much but that's the gamble when rolling the dice at becoming a rockstar, and the fans ultimately decide who goes major and who gives up and gets a job. Japan being small is actually a benefit in that they can tour and reach all their major cities (potential markets) for a much lower cost than touring in, say, America.

 

Arch Enemy sing in English but more importantly there is a proven market for heavy metal in the USA and many other places. Visual kei not so much. Playing overseas is risky, and is certainly going to be a massive financial loss for anyone not named Dir en Grey, Gazette, X Japan, L'arc, Luna Sea, ONE OK ROCK, etc. Tens of thousands of dollars would be sunk in, and what is the possible future upside? Smaller bands might make a decent deal and end up playing in America at an Anime Con (thinking Blood, Phantasmagoria) for a profit, but that's a fluke.

 

Rammstein did make it and tour here at a profit, but they also had massive massive massive worldwide hit song in "Du Haust." What about all the other big German acts? Bakkushan, Jennifer Rostock, Montreal, etc? Oomph has been very successful for decades, but they only came to America once and haven't been back because they money isn't there.

[Traxan 148]

The visual scene has a very efficient little business model that has developed over the past 25 or so years. The market is niche, but the people in the industry have done a great job of finding ways to maximize profits (multiple cd versions, FC, merch, etc) while operating a business model that helps+encourages the formation of new bands, and streamlines their growth until they either make it and go major or disband. The management, labels, etc make enough to keep the doors open, the band members might not make much but that's the gamble when rolling the dice at becoming a rockstar, and the fans ultimately decide who goes major and who gives up and gets a job. Japan being small is actually a benefit in that they can tour and reach all their major cities (potential markets) for a much lower cost than touring in, say, America.

 

 

True there. That's because all the action is centered around Tokyo. I read somewhere that 1/4 of the Japanese population is in Tokyo. And I saw a video on YouTube from a show or something called Future Standard, on the preparation behind an Aldious show. Yoshi, Reno and Aruto arrived in a van with their gear. Two others came by cab. The club's staff unloaded their gear and set it up for them. They need no road crew and no trucks of gear or a tour bus, just the van with their modest collection of gear. The girls all helped each other with their hair and makeup. No road crew at all. At the end of the show, the band went home, not to a hotel. That would be impossible in the US. They would need a tour bus and a separate truck for their gear (or two the way Marina's drum kit has grown) and then a hotel every night.

 

Ah, found it.

 

 

That said, can Japanese bands survive just in Japan? I still think Japanese bands as a whole, not just VK, need to push outside their borders. Europe and South America are very good markets where metal is thriving and Australia is a popular destination as well. I mean, has any Japanese band performed at Wacken? It's THE metal show in Europe. Five days, multiple stages. I would much rather see X Japan, Anthem, Galneryus, Maximum the Hormone, or Mary's Blood play Wacken before Babymetal does, and BM strikes me as the only band with the gumption to try.

 

EDIT: Forgot to add one point: Japanese bands need to take risk. I think that may be what stops them is the financial risk involved. The fact is a young band trying to make it will incur debt. It's unavoidable. They lose money as an opening act on the hope and promise of making it back as they grow in popularity. And it can take years to pay off the debt even when they are a headliner. The Japanese bands have to be willing to take the risk of running into debt as they build a foreign base, which can't be done by appearing at individual anime festivals here and there.

[Pandabear 414]

I'm going to agree and say that the majority of disbandment's are money related. Being in a band isn't easy and it takes as much business savvy as it does perseverance and talent, if not more. It doesn't matter what kinda of genre you play or where you are, it's still hard. WIth japan in particular I think most of the disbandments come from the VK scene. Actually, it might only be slightly more frequent than any other scene in japan because I do think making it as a vk band is harder, but  the amount of disbandment isn't out of the ordinary. The reason it probably seems like more vk bands disband is because the scene gets more attention than other non vk bands. At least on most j-rock forums like this one, when in truth a lot of non vk bands disband  just as much.

 

I have noticed a lot of vk bands that came out around the 2000's have disbanded in the past year or two, or have plans to disband for this year. I'm going to say 99 percent of those bands made that choice because the money isn't there. If after five, eight or ten years, you're still not making enough money to make a living at it with your bandmates, something is clearly wrong. And regardless of the passion one may have for music, ten years is a long time to be broke so I definitely don't blame any of those bands for breaking up.

 

That Aldious story is pretty cool. I love the DIY approach they had. Although, I disagree that that same approach wouldn't be possible in the U.S when a lot of bands already do that. Of course if you're talking about touring the entire U.S than that's a different story, but I don't think it would be possible to tour all of japan with that same approach either.

 

To me, the self released, independent and DIY approach is the way to go for most future musicians and artists. There should be less record company involvement, only what is needed, and at the appropriate stages for an artist/bands. It may be harder, but the profits are greater. Japan is a little behind on this, and is probably harder to do this there than in the U.S, but I feel this will eventually catch up there as well.

 

[Traxan 148]

Do you understand Japanese? If so, what did they say?

 

BTW, here's the dirty little secret behind why so many American metal bands are still functioning despite the members being in their 40s and 50s and playing the same clubs they played back in the 80s: the guys are all married and their wives carry the household load. They have good day jobs with health insurance benefits. That allows their husbands to work full time on a band when he might be lucky if he makes $50,000 a year. That won't fly in Japan at all. Women are all but shoved out of the workforce once they get married, to say nothing of the notion of them supporting the household while hubby chases rock and roll dreams.

[seikun 317]

How about Visual Kei being saturated with too many bands, more than the scene can actually sustain considering it is a small independent scene that doesn't appeal to the mainstream.

[Pandabear 414]

Do you understand Japanese? If so, what did they say?

 

BTW, here's the dirty little secret behind why so many American metal bands are still functioning despite the members being in their 40s and 50s and playing the same clubs they played back in the 80s: the guys are all married and their wives carry the household load. They have good day jobs with health insurance benefits. That allows their husbands to work full time on a band when he might be lucky if he makes $50,000 a year. That won't fly in Japan at all. Women are all but shoved out of the workforce once they get married, to say nothing of the notion of them supporting the household while hubby chases rock and roll dreams.

 

I don’t understand Japanese and I didn’t watch the video, so I’ll leave it at that.

That being said your argument is very flawed. While it might be true to some degree, that isn’t the case for the vast majority. Most U.S metal bands that are in their 40's and 50's as you describe are still functioning because of good business decisions. It isn’t because they’re being supported by their spouses, but because they’ve been in the industry so long that they have been able to streamline every aspect of their band. This way they maximize profit and keep expenditure low, everything from touring, recording, merch, endorsements, etc.

Once you’ve been around in the industry long enough and you’re not a complete asshole or idiot, you’ll learn good business acumen, get good connections, get better at your craft and learn valuable skills that can be applied outside of music or across other platforms to function as other streams of revenue.

Not only that, but any smart band pre-internet probably made a good deal of money. This is especially true of bigger acts who pretty much made their fortune back then and secured their financial future. It’s also very likely that those bands and the members in them, have other jobs in the music industry other than being in said band. This can range from everything to mixer, engineer, producer, composer, band manager, song writing for other bands, becoming a studio musician, or even becoming entrepreneurs and starting their own non music related business. All of which supplements or can even be more lucrative than the band they actual play in.

Of course all of that pretty much flies out the window if you start a band in the current day. Particularly with metal, you’ll either always be broke, or close to it. And unless you’ve been working at some decent place for years and are in your late 20's or 30's when all of sudden you decide to start a band, you won’t have that stable dayjob with good benefits to rely on. And $50,000 is a lot for a single musician to make in a year especially in metal. You’d be on the higher metal tier with that, which most bands aren’t. Even mid tier metal bands barely make enough to get by.

 

But yes, japan is sexist, unfortunately.

[Traxan 148]

Well I've seen the bands discuss it, often in documentaries. Chuck Billy of Testament credited his wife's insurance through work with saving his life when he came down with cancer in 2000.

 

As for the dollar figure, I just threw that out there because recently Devin Townshend said he makes $60k a year, and that's before the expenses of being on the road.

 

But you are right in that the older bands with a few decades under their belts have grown up and learned to treat this as a job, don't blow all their money on booze and drugs, etc. That's the inherent contradiction of the rock and roll life: it's rebelling against being careerist and being a responsible adult, yet if you want your band to survive you have to treat it like any other job and take it very seriously.