Madeth Gray'll History Question

[Peace Heavy mk II 7200]

Hey everyone. I've just finished putting together a biography of Madeth Gray'll here. I know this board has a lot of followers of this band, which is why I am posing this question to you:

 

Could you read through this and make sure I have my facts straight? I pulled information for that from a number of sources and some of the dates did not match up. This mostly stems from when they officially joined Matina and when their CDs were no longer self produced.

 

Additionally, I'm questioning some of the romanization of their song titles.

 

For example, "呪ワレシ華ノ生命…" is often romanized as "Noroi wareshi hana no seimei..." However, when I look up the first kanji in a dictionary, "呪" is not read as "noroi" unless it is followed by the character "い." The romanization above is how JaME writes the title, as well as the other instance of "呪" in their album Lucifer, but I'll don't exactly trust them.

 

Additionally, JaME has the title "廃人狂イ人形" romanized as "Haijin kyou ningyou" which I'm sure is incorrect. "狂イ" is supposed to be read as "kurui." Had the "イ" not been there, "kyou" would be (one of) the correct way(s) to read that kanji.

 

 

Why couldn't they pick less ambiguous names? >: | 

 

 

The reason I'm asking for help here is because I feel having accurate history is very important. Many times, bios get copied and pasted over and over without anyone to really check to see what's correct and what's inaccurate. Over time, the lines become so blurred that it's hard to figure out what's real and what never actually happened. This kind of thing happens all the time, such as when people upload "demo-tapes" that are album versions of a song in a .rar file by themselves, or when last.fm bios are just the names of people that may or may not have even been the last line-up for a band. I'm trying to prevent / correct that with Deadeyes-Star. 

 

 

 

 

SO

 

Thank you for reading and let me know if I royally messed something up. Expect another thread like this within two weeks after I write up a bio for 

弥叉, which is another band who's history is all over the place.

[Champ213 1858]

 

For example, "呪ワレシ華ノ生命…" is often romanized as "Noroi wareshi hana no seimei..." However, when I look up the first kanji in a dictionary, "呪" is not read as "noroi" unless it is followed by the character "い." The romanization above is how JaME writes the title, as well as the other instance of "呪" in their album Lucifer, but I'll don't exactly trust them.

 

Additionally, JaME has the title "廃人狂イ人形" romanized as "Haijin kyou ningyou" which I'm sure is incorrect. "狂イ" is supposed to be read as "kurui." Had the "イ" not been there, "kyou" would be (one of) the correct way(s) to read that kanji.

 

 

Why couldn't they pick less ambiguous names? >: | 

 

 

The names aren't that ambigious, but I think people are thrown off by the use of katakana where you normally would expect hiragana. XD

They may even have used crappy online translators or dictionaries, that didn't pick up the katakana as being a part of the kanji before it. But yes, it should be "norowareshi" and "kurui". "norowareshii" is proper adjective meaning "accursed". 

 

Can't really help you with the history, but that looks like some impressive biography you wrote there!

[hyura 465]

I like that you rewrite their biography, the one that's currently used on most other pages has been copypasted for over 10 years I think and Madeths popularity really deserves to have a proper one.

It seems to be correct for the most part, too, as far as I can tell without checking every date.

 

I'd propably consider adding information about their activities besides release names and dates, though. Especially the first period with all the demotapes seems a little like they didn't know what they were doing written like that while it really was a well planned promotion campaign!

 

The three first demos (norowareshi hana no seimei, kuroshouzoku no shirabe, missantroop) could be preordered through Matina and they cost money. At this point Madeth did not yet have a single live performance yet and they were called a 'Vierge members unit band' Those tapes sold out and the bands identity was revealed at their first 'secret' live (which was not secret at all) on christmas 97' at which you got the forth tape, kyoushikyoku.

So it was only after that that they started actual activities. They announced their first 'official' release, the kyoushirakuen tape and three live dates to promote it before named hakuchuumu no sangeki, chizome no kigeki and operaza no higeki and at each you got a demo with the same title containing a sample.

 

Of course one doesn't need it that detailed, I just think that it's more coherent if you include some important live dates and activities. At least mentioning the onemans they had (just very few) and when they had a tour. Do you have their history album? The history printed in the booklet is not bad at all.

(ask me anything though. orz I have almost all their flyers and interviews and no idea what to do with the senseless infos)

 

Some mistakes, though:

I think you actually mixed up ukyou and izumi!

When the second juujika no ketsumatsu was released ukyou was already their lead guitarist. you can also hear him in Le MISERABLE and Mother Crisis, as well. Izumi joined later at their first oneman live at 99/8/9.

 

The last video was not released at their last live. (couldn't have, it contains footage from that day) As far as I know you had to send in a coupon from the live as well as a coupon from their best album and then you could win it through some sort of lottery.

 

Le MISERABLE was not a new song on the best. It was already released in early 99 on the new age culture vol 2 sampler.

 

Hisuis disappeared from the scene completely after Rametan Matsuri on 2004/6/12 with kisaki to kansai kizoku. So not in 2007.

 

I think their last mini is romanized as boukai no mato... but I'm not completely sure. ww

[Peace Heavy mk II 7200]

I like that you rewrite their biography, the one that's currently used on most other pages has been copypasted for over 10 years I think and Madeths popularity really deserves to have a proper one.

It seems to be correct for the most part, too, as far as I can tell without checking every date.

 

I'd propably consider adding information about their activities besides release names and dates, though. Especially the first period with all the demotapes seems a little like they didn't know what they were doing written like that while it really was a well planned promotion campaign!

 

The three first demos (norowareshi hana no seimei, kuroshouzoku no shirabe, missantroop) could be preordered through Matina and they cost money. At this point Madeth did not yet have a single live performance yet and they were called a 'vierge members unit band' Those tapes sold out and the bands identity was revealed at their first 'secret' live (which was not secret at all) on christmas 97' at which you got the forth tape, kyoushikyoku.

So it was only after that that they started actual activities. They announced their first 'official' release, the kyoushirakuen tape and three live dates to promote it before named hakuchuumu no sangeki, chizome no kigeki and operaza no higeki and at each you got a demo with the same title containing a sample.

 

Of course one doesn't need it that detailed, I just think that it's more coherent if you include some important live dates and activities. At least mentioning the onemans they had (just very few) and when they had a tour. Do you have their history album? The history printed in the booklet is not bad at all.

(ask me anything though. orz I have almost all their flyers and interviews and no idea what to do with the senseless infos)

 

Some mistakes, though:

I think you actually mixed up ukyou and izumi!

When the second juujika no ketsumatsu was released ukyou was already their lead guitarist. you can also hear him in les mizerable and Mother Crisis, as well. Izumi joined later at their first oneman live at 99/8/9.

 

The last video was not released at their last live. (couldn't have, it contains footage from that day) As far as I know you had to send in a coupon from the live as well as a coupon from their best album and then you could win it through some sort of lottery.

 

Les Miserable was not a new song on the best. It was already released in early 99 on the new age culture vol 2 sampler.

 

Hisuis disappeared from the scene completely after Rametan Matsuri on 2004/6/12 with kisaki to kansai kizoku. So not in 2007.

 

I think their last mini is romanized as boukai no mato... but I'm not completely sure. ww

Ah, thank you! See, a lot of stuff you have here I didn't find elsewhere, like the information about the demo-tapes, which is part of the reason why I'm making sure my information was correct. I do not have their history album: i've wanted to get it for a while but I haven't had the extra money for a CD that typically goes for $50~150 on auction sites |D I imagine in this case it would be very handy.

 

 

To clarify where I've pulled a lot of member dates and whatnot, I was going off of this here. I was under the impression that it wasn't a fantastic history since they made a bigger deal about hide dying than their actual guitarist and the author didn't even really seem like he actually liked the band, but I didn't think it was that inaccurate.

 

@ Champ:

 

Thank~ My Japanese class never got to the 'Possession and Other Spiritual Maladies' chapter, so reading visual-kei titles through an online dictionary is a chore, to say the least. I felt some of their names were ambiguous because a few parts of them have several different ways of reading them but with similar meaning that I could see being used in their current context. For example, "罪人" is supposed to be read as "tsumibito," meaning "sinner," but it can also be read as "zainin" for "prisoner; sinner." I had a similar problem with all the different readings of "呪" as well.

[Replicant 133]

I found something that may help you with member history? It's a picture I found last night by accident (from here)... no dates specified, but info as to who was in the band and where they came from.

 

Hope it helps.

[薔薇の末裔 157]

呪ワレシ is correct as norowareshi. It's old Japanese for "norowareta" (cursed).

廃人狂イ人形 is ok as you spelled. People who romanized it as "haijinkyou" probably they left out the イ when reading (in that case it would make sense).

 

Btw found out a couple of mistakes:

黒装束の調ベ (Kurosouzuku no Shirabe) → kuroshouzoku no shirabe

十字架の結末… (Jyuujika no Ketsumatsu...). → juujika no ketsumatsu (jyuujika is ok as well but I see that you have been using Hepburn so just to conform to it)

螺旋階段と記憶 (Rasen Kaiden to Kioku).  → rasen kaidan to kioku

十字架の結末 ～第二の悲劇～  → juujika no ketsumatsu　~dai ni no higeki~ (you wrote jyuujija here)

: Lucifer ～魔境に映る呪われた罪人達と生命の終焉～ (Lucifer ~Makyou ni Utsuru Noroiwareta Tsumibitotatchi to Seimei no Jyuuen~).  → makyou ni utsuru norowareta tsumibitotachi to seimei no shuuen

亡界ノ魔都 ～Entith de marge～ (Bousei no Mato). → boukai no mato

[Peace Heavy mk II 7200]

呪ワレシ is correct as norowareshi. It's old Japanese for "norowareta" (cursed).

廃人狂イ人形 is ok as you spelled. People who romanized it as "haijinkyou" probably they left out the イ when reading (in that case it would make sense).

 

Btw found out a couple of mistakes:

黒装束の調ベ (Kurosouzuku no Shirabe) → kuroshouzoku no shirabe

十字架の結末… (Jyuujika no Ketsumatsu...). → juujika no ketsumatsu (jyuujika is ok as well but I see that you have been using Hepburn so just to conform to it)

螺旋階段と記憶 (Rasen Kaiden to Kioku).  → rasen kaidan to kioku

十字架の結末 ～第二の悲劇～  → juujika no ketsumatsu　~dai ni no higeki~ (you wrote jyuujija here)

: Lucifer ～魔境に映る呪われた罪人達と生命の終焉～ (Lucifer ~Makyou ni Utsuru Noroiwareta Tsumibitotatchi to Seimei no Jyuuen~).  → makyou ni utsuru norowareta tsumibitotachi to seimei no shuuen

亡界ノ魔都 ～Entith de marge～ (Bousei no Mato). → boukai no mato

Thank you to Re:pli:cant and yourself! As I said in my opening post, I really want this to be accurate so misinformation doesn't get spread around to the best of my ability, so this is very helpful.

 

I've been fairly busy with work this past week, so I haven't been able to make any changes to the existing article-- but all this help has been great.

[Keiyuu 745]

I got some question.. Not history related, but since you are talking about their song titles here, I think it fits.

 

Can anyone tell me whether it's a hiragana or katakana べ in 黒装束の調べ?

I can't figure it out by looking in the booklets or lyric sheets because べ looks nearly the same in both writing systems (べ and ベ). Usually you use hiragana in combination with kanji, but they have other song titles like 廃人狂イ人形 or 呪ワレシ華ノ生命 where they seem to use katakana instead, even if it's not correct. Probably just for stylistic reasons. But there's also some random hiragana in few of their songs... It's confusing.

[Champ213 1858]

I don't have the booklet so I wouldn't know for sure, but I would assume it's hiragana simply based on the fact that the の is a hiragana. I think they sometimes use katakana instead of hiragana to make a title look more "ancient", writing particales and the kana stems of kanji in katakana was pretty common in older times. (So I wouldn't say that using katakana for these particles is "not correct" - it's just an outdated, antique way of writing.)  But when it was used, it was used coherently, ie. you would either write ALL of them in katakana, or ALL of them in hiragana, as you would today. So I don't think they would randomly have one hiragana particle and one katakana particle within the same title.

[Takadanobabaalien 3607]

Alot of japanese ppl i have met told me the reason why some bands (such as madeth) write the katakana instead of hiragana is because japanese people think that katakana looks a bit frightening and stiff compared to hiragana (this is supposedly something that most japanese people thinks... atleast according to my friends). They also told me alot of horror movies does the same, to have the same impression. ^^

[hyura 465]

I have another question about your history article!

 

 

Their name is a portmanteau of the phrase "My Death's Gray Will."

 

I've heard this explanation or a similar one somewhere else and I wonder where it comes from. orz

 

So far I've read only the following two in interviews:

In newer ones: There is no deeper meaning, it's supposed to sound dark and fit the band image.

In older ones It's the English pseudo-translation of 狂死楽園 (which is also the name of their first real release)

This one works a little because:

狂 - MAD, 死 - DEATH, 楽園 - GRAIL (actually it means 'paradise', but 'grail' was the closest thing that made sense to me)

And at least many of their older fans call them 狂死楽園, so I thought that one was legit.

[Peace Heavy mk II 7200]

I found that out by asking on last.fm, but going through their shoutbox it seems like that exchange disappeared. It very well could be completely wrong

[hyura 465]

I found that out by asking on last.fm, but going through their shoutbox it seems like that exchange disappeared. It very well could be completely wrong

Ah, I see! Too bad it disappeared. Would have been interesting to know where it came from. D ;

[Peace Heavy mk II 7200]

Alright, I've updated the band profile. Thank you for all your help! If you find something else that you feel needs to be changed or should really be added, leave a post here or PM me directly if it seems like I'm taking a while to notice.

[Qliffot 118]

I'm experiencing some difficulties with reading the following title: "「Zwei」 堕胎者ト盲目ナ中絶児・・69日目ノ阻害" from "悲劇ノ終幕" compilation. Particularly wondering if "69日目" should be read as "Rokujuu Kyuu Hi Me", or as "Rokujuu Kyuu Nichimoku", which would make kind of pun with first part of this title, viz. "Dataisha to Moumoku" (the whole title I'd read as follows: Zwei Dataisha to Moumoku na Chuuzetsuji.. Rokujuu Kyuu Hi Me [or: Nichimoku] no Sogai". Would somebody be so kind to tell me, which way (if any) is the proper one?

[hyura 465]

I'm experiencing some difficulties with reading the following title: "「Zwei」 堕胎者ト盲目ナ中絶児・・69日目ノ阻害" from "悲劇ノ終幕" compilation. Particularly wondering if "69日目" should be read as "Rokujuu Kyuu Hi Me", or as "Rokujuu Kyuu Nichimoku", which would make kind of pun with first part of this title, viz. "Dataisha to Moumoku" (the whole title I'd read as follows: Zwei Dataisha to Moumoku na Chuuzetsuji.. Rokujuu Kyuu Hi Me [or: Nichimoku] no Sogai". Would somebody be so kind to tell me, which way (if any) is the proper one?

 

Of course there is no official source but I'm 100% sure it's read as "「Zwei」 dataisha to mōmoku na chūzetsuji... 69nichi me no sogai" because '...nichi me' is just the usual way to say 'the ...th day'. So in that case 'abortion on the 69th day (of pregnancy)'

[Qliffot 118]

OK, thank You very much, @hyura. As I confessed somewhere else on Monochrome Heaven, I do not study Japanese grammar regularly anymore, so this case presented to me a real problem.

[Peace Heavy mk II 7200]

That title is angsty as fuck. It's something like "The deaf and blind baby that aborted during the 69th day and that's really sad guys so I'm writing this song about it [zwei]"

[Qliffot 118]

Hey, please excuse me being so annoying, but I have one more doubt around pronunciation. At this time it's about 楽園の黒霧. You know, I wouldn't tire You with similar questions, if there be unanimity about how to pronounce the second part of the title, but it's not like this and I hope it's the last time, when I'm spamming this topic. In most cases the compounds including 霧 (kiri) as second kanji seem to be read mostly as む, like 雲霧 (un'mu), 煙霧 (enmu), 海霧 (kaimu*), 濃霧 (noumu) or 氷霧 (hyoumu), as most of You surely know. However, there are also compounds, where 霧 is read also in ordinary way, although the phenomenon of rendaku appear changing the initial 'k' into 'g', viz.: 夜霧 (yogiri), 夕霧 (yuugiri, but also 'sekimu'), 山霧 (yamagiri), 朝霧 (asagiri) or 川霧 (kawarigi). Because of kind of apparent inconsistency in this matter I feel so much confused, which way should I choose to pronounce this title properly. Search in google also didn't help. "くろぎり" "黒霧" gives 616 results, "くろきり" "黒霧" 973 and "くろむ" "黒霧" 3850, so I would perhaps choose "Rakuen no Kuromu", even if normally when Japanese would like to say 'thick fog', he would use, I fancy, 黒い霧 (kuroi kiri) instead, just like Hisui recites in the beginning of this track and whence some translated this title into romaji as 'kuro kiri'. Therefore, which way is most probably the true, most certainly used by the band? 'Kurokiri' (Kurogiri), or 'Kuromu'?

 

* This in fact can be pronounced as well as 'umigiri'.

[Keiyuu 745]

I don't have the booklet so I wouldn't know for sure, but I would assume it's hiragana simply based on the fact that the の is a hiragana. I think they sometimes use katakana instead of hiragana to make a title look more "ancient", writing particales and the kana stems of kanji in katakana was pretty common in older times. (So I wouldn't say that using katakana for these particles is "not correct" - it's just an outdated, antique way of writing.)  But when it was used, it was used coherently, ie. you would either write ALL of them in katakana, or ALL of them in hiragana, as you would today. So I don't think they would randomly have one hiragana particle and one katakana particle within the same title.

 

Thanks for the explanation! I didn't know that using katakana is an antique way of writing kana stems.

So if it's either all hiragana or all katakana.. does it mean that for example the title 開放サレタ君ヘ (it's a Shiver song) is an example of "ancient writing" where the ヘ is supposed to be katakana because サレタ is katakana? Or is this a different story since there's no particle in the title? I don't even understand what サレタ is supposed to mean...

Btw, here's a scan of the Madeth title for reference.

 

 

Alot of japanese ppl i have met told me the reason why some bands (such as madeth) write the katakana instead of hiragana is because japanese people think that katakana looks a bit frightening and stiff compared to hiragana (this is supposedly something that most japanese people thinks... atleast according to my friends). They also told me alot of horror movies does the same, to have the same impression. ^^

 

You may be onto something there! O:

This made me instantly think of the horror movie "Noroi". Usually you would write Noroi (curse) as 呪い, but the movie title is written ノロイ.