Zeus

Since I can't stand the Mejibray/GazettE-stanning that's taken over this topic and has gotten away from the original intent, I'm bringing it back. I'm also giving you all something new to talk about since new unpopular opinions have ceased to surface over the last page or so.

Visual kei is not a genre or an aesthetic movement. It's a paradoxical manifestation of an anomaly against the negatives of Japanese culture.

This is closely related to the problem of "what is visual kei?".

Stolen shamelessly from Wikipedia, a genre is defined as
 
 
We can stop right here. Before you start processing the definition, ask yourself "what is visual kei"? We can have a ten page discussion about that in this topic right now and still not come to a consensus. Visual kei is an open-ended, ill-defined term exploited by both us and the bands in the scene to refer to whatever we please. We agree to disagree on what the term is supposed to mean and take it at face value when someone tells us that a band is or isn't visual kei anymore.

By definition, visual kei can't be a genre because we can only define it by what it is not, and very conservatively at that. The difference between newbies and veterans in the scene mostly comes down to context sensitivity determining band classification. What do I mean by this? Well, we can all look at a band or an idol group and very clearly say "this is not visual kei". But if we look at a visual kei band next to a band that uses theatrical make-up and aesthetic elements, we get into murky territory. Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't. Newbies lack the knowledge to make this distinction, and utilize only the looks to say whether or not a band is visual. Then, they get lashed upon by fans of that band who "don't want to associate this band with those bands" for getting it wrong, and they learn. Eventually they learn only to label a band as visual kei if they describe themselves as such or if someone else before them says it first. [1]

The thing is, the newbies have the right approach at first. They get into the scene, they hear that it's a genre, and seek to classify it. But before long they realize that over the span of twenty years, visual kei has birthed bands that sound very, very different. Going off of sound alone, all bands that were ever considered visual kei can't be connected short of a definition so vague it's useless. So then we turn to the costumes and theatrics and claim that as a large component of what makes a band visual. But even there, we can piece together different bands that don't look anything alike - some bands which don't look remotely visual at all - and claim they are all visual kei. Hell, lynch. has looked like a normal band for quite some time and there's still a heated debate to whether or not they're visual kei. On the first page of this very topic, one of the unpopular opinions was that "Dir en grey is still visual". Once again, you now have bands that have very little in common aesthetic wise and short of a very vague, useless definition we have nothing to go off of.

So I've basically run through this problem, haven't given a solution and haven't explained my point (or have I?). What gives?

Well as a fandom we tend to separate visual kei bands based on decades, so let's do that:

- The mysterious late 80's, which most of us like to pretend doesn't exist, full of bands that play some form of rock or metal.
- The music of the 90's, which is usually thought of as bands inspired by Victorian and goth costumes playing...well, whatever they want.
- The 00's, which was populated by lots of flashy costumes, usually subdivided into subkeis to better be able to classify and understand bands but still full of bands playing whatever they want.
- The 10's, which seems to have a preponderance of electronic elements in the music but for the most part still full of plenty of different bands playing whatever they please.

And even here we tend to simplify this as to "80s HAIR METAL, 90'S GOFF MUZIK, 00'S KEI ON KEI ACTION/RAWRCORE, 10'S WUB-WUBCORE", which illustrates the points I made above. As a fan, you get to a point where you realize that the term can't be defined and thus you stop. The working definition is "If a band wants to be visual kei, they'll be visual kei. When they don't, they're no longer visual kei". [2]  So doesn't this describe a movement, which brings together people just as different for a common cause? Let's go through all of the things that should make a movement and see if it lines up.

Well let's see:

- Coordinated group action. Well, visual kei isn't very rebellious or subversive, outside of the low barrier to entry being offensive to some people's ears and the costumes being offensive to some people's eyes. Unless there is this entire "point" they all share that we've missed for forever and a day, I believe that most bands focus on staying functional over staying Stallman-esque in their beliefs. [3] And frankly, I can't blame them. Pragmatism rules. [4]

- A common cause. But what is that cause and do all bands share it? As I said above, we really don't think of visual kei as something as much as we do as an entity against something. But even that "entity" changes over time, reflected by the different forms of visual kei. So do the bands of the late 80's and the bands of today share the same goal? Yes and no. [5]

- People from different walks of life. We can't say too much because we don't know the details of most musicians. Note however that on a macro scale most visual kei bands are Japanese and many tend to gravitate around a few cities on the mainland. We also can surmise that a lot of these musicians are poor or struggling. We also haven't seen the scene take root in any other countries with similar situations. In this sense, it represents a truly Japanese problem - disillusioned youth versus "The System". If it's a movement here, it's on a small scale.

Visual kei is too anti-classification to be a genre and too inconclusive to be a movement. So what is it?

My admittedly semantic description of visual kei is that of a paradoxical anomaly. It exists, full of people perpetuating it unaware of it's purpose, fighting against an issue that plagues the Japanese society whilst embodying almost every characteristic of that society. What is that issue? Well, I believe the issue lies in the extreme conformity and deference to authority found in the society, coupled with high expectations placed upon every member of that society, along with a thirty year recession that has stagnated the Japanese economy and makes it hard to achieve the life every Japanese person feels it is their duty to obtain.

A strictly Japanese problem. [6]

Visual kei exists as an antagonist to everything in that society, even definition, because it refuses to conform. It's piloted by people who know full they may never see success but toil anyway as a gigantic "FUCK YOU" to their society. It's also mostly populated by young people with the drive and ambition to change their surroundings but no means to achieve that change (and older people who exploit these young people for the cash they'll never see, bringing the entire scene into territory so meta it hurts). When those kids grow up and lose their drive, as after years of fighting against this nebulous problem they watch it shift into something new but no less harmful, they give up, slip into the routine, and become working salary men that can't be identified. It's an anomaly that just is, and that anomaly happens to make noise that we like to listen to.

To pigeonhole visual kei into anything else misses the political and cultural significance that caused it's birth.

tl;dr - Visual kei is the Japanese "hippie culture" of the 60's, with no Vietnam War in sight to bring it to an end. [7]

Notes:

Here I extrapolate on points that I wanted to make above and didn't because I didn't want to go on a tangent and not come back.

[1] This is my personal belief behind why revival bands like Grieva and Ru:natic will never see a resurgence. The forms that visual kei took in the 90's was in resistance to the culture and expectations of the 90's. The world is an irreversibly different place and thus visual kei must change along with it. This is also why I believe that visual kei is not an aesthetic - the fashion world moves in cycles much shorter than 30 years. Visual kei hasn't repeated a phase to date. That's why I believe it supersedes such a definition.

[2] Not only does this loose definition work but it reflects a lot of what I get into later in my argument. Most importantly, that it gives an element of control back to the band. I've read in multiple places that the Japanese populace don't feel like they have much choice - they must succeed in school, get into better schools, succeed there, get a good job, start a family, etc. - and then must face a wall of depression when they realize that most can't get to the head of the pack and they didn't. By sticking to this definition, bands can have a say in a core element which defines them.

[3] Richard Stallman, founder of the GNU Project. Read up on him to see what ideals unbounded by pragmatism really is. Hint: it sounds like crazy.

[4] When bands have no motivation or have run out of reasons to continue they sometimes disband for no reason. On the other side of that coin, some bands are so tight knit that they feel as if they can't function if a member leaves. But at the heart of it all, many bands don't put ideals and beliefs over success. Those that have them use them alongside the visuals and their music - and even then if it becomes too hard they quit or if they become successful they tone it down or cut it out completely. See, NoGoD.

[5] Even more interestingly, visual kei itself tends to conform in ways, which subverts the point of the whole thing. It's like a military group led by a dictator attacking a dictatorial government for its evils. This is why I refrain from calling it a movement, because it itself embodies the very principles it seeks to combat.

[6] Which is why "overseas visual kei" will never take off. The societal conditions are not right for it to spawn. YOHIO and Seremedy are second-order simulacra.

[7] After WWII, Japan isn't allowed to have a real standing army so it isn't in it's best interest to get into conflicts. I meant it literally. In another sense, you could say that the counterculture of the 60's was against "The System" but manifested itself through the War. Once the War ended, the culture had little reason to exist. Since visual kei doesn't have such a clear cut enemy, it will continue on for much longer. This is also why visual kei can't "die".

Since I can't stand the Mejibray/GazettE-stanning that's taken over this topic and has gotten away from the original intent, I'm bringing it back. I'm also giving you all something new to talk about since new unpopular opinions have ceased to surface over the last page or so.

Visual kei is not a genre or an aesthetic movement. It's a paradoxical manifestation of an anomaly against the negatives of Japanese culture.

This is closely related to the problem of "what is visual kei?".

Stolen shamelessly from Wikipedia, a genre is defined as
 
 
We can stop right here. Before you start processing the definition, ask yourself "what is visual kei"? We can have a ten page discussion about that in this topic right now and still not come to a consensus. Visual kei is an open-ended, ill-defined term exploited by both us and the bands in the scene to refer to whatever we please. We agree to disagree on what the term is supposed to mean and take it at face value when someone tells us that a band is or isn't visual kei anymore.

By definition, visual kei can't be a genre because we can only define it by what it is not, and very conservatively at that. The difference between newbies and veterans in the scene mostly comes down to context sensitivity determining band classification. What do I mean by this? Well, we can all look at a band or an idol group and very clearly say "this is not visual kei". But if we look at a visual kei band next to a band that uses theatrical make-up and aesthetic elements, we get into murky territory. Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't. Newbies lack the knowledge to make this distinction, and utilize only the looks to say whether or not a band is visual. Then, they get lashed upon by fans of that band who "don't want to associate this band with those bands" for getting it wrong, and they learn. Eventually they learn only to label a band as visual kei if they describe themselves as such or if someone else before them says it first. [1]

The thing is, the newbies have the right approach at first. They get into the scene, they hear that it's a genre, and seek to classify it. But before long they realize that over the span of twenty years, visual kei has birthed bands that sound very, very different. Going off of sound alone, all bands that were ever considered visual kei can't be connected short of a definition so vague it's useless. So then we turn to the costumes and theatrics and claim that as a large component of what makes a band visual. But even there, we can piece together different bands that don't look anything alike - some bands which don't look remotely visual at all - and claim they are all visual kei. Hell, lynch. has looked like a normal band for quite some time and there's still a heated debate to whether or not they're visual kei. On the first page of this very topic, one of the unpopular opinions was that "Dir en grey is still visual". Once again, you now have bands that have very little in common aesthetic wise and short of a very vague, useless definition we have nothing to go off of.

So I've basically run through this problem, haven't given a solution and haven't explained my point (or have I?). What gives?

Well as a fandom we tend to separate visual kei bands based on decades, so let's do that:

- The mysterious late 80's, which most of us like to pretend doesn't exist, full of bands that play some form of rock or metal.
- The music of the 90's, which is usually thought of as bands inspired by Victorian and goth costumes playing...well, whatever they want.
- The 00's, which was populated by lots of flashy costumes, usually subdivided into subkeis to better be able to classify and understand bands but still full of bands playing whatever they want.
- The 10's, which seems to have a preponderance of electronic elements in the music but for the most part still full of plenty of different bands playing whatever they please.

And even here we tend to simplify this as to "80s HAIR METAL, 90'S GOFF MUZIK, 00'S KEI ON KEI ACTION/RAWRCORE, 10'S WUB-WUBCORE", which illustrates the points I made above. As a fan, you get to a point where you realize that the term can't be defined and thus you stop. The working definition is "If a band wants to be visual kei, they'll be visual kei. When they don't, they're no longer visual kei". [2]  So doesn't this describe a movement, which brings together people just as different for a common cause? Let's go through all of the things that should make a movement and see if it lines up.

Well let's see:

- Coordinated group action. Well, visual kei isn't very rebellious or subversive, outside of the low barrier to entry being offensive to some people's ears and the costumes being offensive to some people's eyes. Unless there is this entire "point" they all share that we've missed for forever and a day, I believe that most bands focus on staying functional over staying Stallman-esque in their beliefs. [3] And frankly, I can't blame them. Pragmatism rules. [4]

- A common cause. But what is that cause and do all bands share it? As I said above, we really don't think of visual kei as something as much as we do as an entity against something. But even that "entity" changes over time, reflected by the different forms of visual kei. So do the bands of the late 80's and the bands of today share the same goal? Yes and no. [5]

- People from different walks of life. We can't say too much because we don't know the details of most musicians. Note however that on a macro scale most visual kei bands are Japanese and many tend to gravitate around a few cities on the mainland. We also can surmise that a lot of these musicians are poor or struggling. We also haven't seen the scene take root in any other countries with similar situations. In this sense, it represents a truly Japanese problem - disillusioned youth versus "The System". If it's a movement here, it's on a small scale.

Visual kei is too anti-classification to be a genre and too inconclusive to be a movement. So what is it?

My admittedly semantic description of visual kei is that of a paradoxical anomaly. It exists, full of people perpetuating it unaware of it's purpose, fighting against an issue that plagues the Japanese society whilst embodying almost every characteristic of that society. What is that issue? Well, I believe the issue lies in the extreme conformity and deference to authority found in the society, coupled with high expectations placed upon every member of that society, along with a thirty year recession that has stagnated the Japanese economy and makes it hard to achieve the life every Japanese person feels it is their duty to obtain.

A strictly Japanese problem. [6]

Visual kei exists as an antagonist to everything in that society, even definition, because it refuses to conform. It's piloted by people who know full they may never see success but toil anyway as a gigantic "FUCK YOU" to their society. It's also mostly populated by young people with the drive and ambition to change their surroundings but no means to achieve that change (and older people who exploit these young people for the cash they'll never see, bringing the entire scene into territory so meta it hurts). When those kids grow up and lose their drive, as after years of fighting against this nebulous problem they watch it shift into something new but no less harmful, they give up, slip into the routine, and become working salary men that can't be identified. It's an anomaly that just is, and that anomaly happens to make noise that we like to listen to.

To pigeonhole visual kei into anything else misses the political and cultural significance that caused it's birth.

tl;dr - Visual kei is the Japanese "hippie culture" of the 60's, with no Vietnam War in sight to bring it to an end. [7]

Notes:

Here I extrapolate on points that I wanted to make above and didn't because I didn't want to go on a tangent and not come back.

[1] This is my personal belief behind why revival bands like Grieva and Ru:natic will never see a resurgence. The forms that visual kei took in the 90's was in resistance to the culture and expectations of the 90's. The world is an irreversibly different place and thus visual kei must change along with it. This is also why I believe that visual kei is not an aesthetic - the fashion world moves in cycles much shorter than 30 years. Visual kei hasn't repeated a phase to date. That's why I believe it supersedes such a definition.

[2] Not only does this loose definition work but it reflects a lot of what I get into later in my argument. Most importantly, that it gives an element of control back to the band. I've read in multiple places that the Japanese populace don't feel like they have much choice - they must succeed in school, get into better schools, succeed there, get a good job, start a family, etc. - and then must face a wall of depression when they realize that most can't get to the head of the pack and they didn't. By sticking to this definition, bands can have a say in a core element which defines them.

[3] Richard Stallman, founder of the GNU Project. Read up on him to see what ideals unbounded by pragmatism really is. Hint: it sounds like crazy.

[4] When bands have no motivation or have run out of reasons to continue they sometimes disband for no reason. On the other side of that coin, some bands are so tight knit that they feel as if they can't function if a member leaves. But at the heart of it all, many bands don't put ideals and beliefs over success. Those that have them use them alongside the visuals and their music - and even then if it becomes too hard they quit or if they become successful they tone it down or cut it out completely. See, NoGoD.

[5] Even more interestingly, visual kei itself tends to conform in ways, which subverts the point of the whole thing. It's like a military group led by a dictator attacking a dictatorial government for its evils. This is why I refrain from calling it a movement, because it itself embodies the very principles it seeks to combat.

[6] Which is why "overseas visual kei" will never take off. The societal conditions are not right for it to spawn. YOHIO and Seremedy are second-order simulacra.

[7] After WWII, Japan isn't allowed to have a real standing army so it isn't in it's best interest to get into conflicts. I meant it literally. In another sense, you could say that the counterculture of the 60's was against "The System" but manifested itself through the War. Once the War ended, the culture had little reason to exist. Since visual kei doesn't have such a clear cut enemy, it will continue on for much longer. This is also why visual kei can't "die".

Since I can't stand the Mejibray/GazettE-stanning that's taken over this topic and has gotten away from the original intent, I'm bringing it back. I'm also giving you all something new to talk about since new unpopular opinions have ceased to surface over the last page or so.

Visual kei is not a genre or an aesthetic movement. It's a paradoxical manifestation of an anomaly against the negatives of Japanese culture.

This is closely related to the problem of "what is visual kei?".

Stolen shamelessly from Wikipedia, a genre is defined as
 
 
We can stop right here. Before you start processing the definition, ask yourself "what is visual kei"? We can have a ten page discussion about that in this topic right now and still not come to a consensus. Visual kei is an open-ended, ill-defined term exploited by both us and the bands in the scene to refer to whatever we please. We agree to disagree on what the term is supposed to mean and take it at face value when someone tells us that a band is or isn't visual kei anymore.

By definition, visual kei can't be a genre because we can only define it by what it is not, and very conservatively at that. The difference between newbies and veterans in the scene mostly comes down to context sensitivity determining band classification. What do I mean by this? Well, we can all look at a band or an idol group and very clearly say "this is not visual kei". But if we look at a visual kei band next to a band that uses theatrical make-up and aesthetic elements, we get into murky territory. Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't. Newbies lack the knowledge to make this distinction, and utilize only the looks to say whether or not a band is visual. Then, they get lashed upon by fans of that band who "don't want to associate this band with those bands" for getting it wrong, and they learn. Eventually they learn only to label a band as visual kei if they describe themselves as such or if someone else before them says it first. [1]

The thing is, the newbies have the right approach at first. They get into the scene, they hear that it's a genre, and seek to classify it. But before long they realize that over the span of twenty years, visual kei has birthed bands that sound very, very different. Going off of sound alone, all bands that were ever considered visual kei can't be connected short of a definition so vague it's useless. So then we turn to the costumes and theatrics and claim that as a large component of what makes a band visual. But even there, we can piece together different bands that don't look anything alike - some bands which don't look remotely visual at all - and claim they are all visual kei. Hell, lynch. has looked like a normal band for quite some time and there's still a heated debate to whether or not they're visual kei. On the first page of this very topic, one of the unpopular opinions was that "Dir en grey is still visual". Once again, you now have bands that have very little in common aesthetic wise and short of a very vague, useless definition we have nothing to go off of.

So I've basically run through this problem, haven't given a solution and haven't explained my point (or have I?). What gives?

Well as a fandom we tend to separate visual kei bands based on decades, so let's do that:

- The mysterious late 80's, which most of us like to pretend doesn't exist, full of bands that play some form of rock or metal.
- The music of the 90's, which is usually thought of as bands inspired by Victorian and goth costumes playing...well, whatever they want.
- The 00's, which was populated by lots of flashy costumes, usually subdivided into subkeis to better be able to classify and understand bands but still full of bands playing whatever they want.
- The 10's, which seems to have a preponderance of electronic elements in the music but for the most part still full of plenty of different bands playing whatever they please.

And even here we tend to simplify this as to "80s HAIR METAL, 90'S GOFF MUZIK, 00'S KEI ON KEI ACTION/RAWRCORE, 10'S WUB-WUBCORE", which illustrates the points I made above. As a fan, you get to a point where you realize that the term can't be defined and thus you stop. The working definition is "If a band wants to be visual kei, they'll be visual kei. When they don't, they're no longer visual kei". [2]  So doesn't this describe a movement, which brings together people just as different for a common cause? Let's go through all of the things that should make a movement and see if it lines up.

Well let's see:

- Coordinated group action. Well, visual kei isn't very rebellious or subversive, outside of the low barrier to entry being offensive to some people's ears and the costumes being offensive to some people's eyes. Unless there is this entire "point" they all share that we've missed for forever and a day, I believe that most bands focus on staying functional over staying Stallman-esque in their beliefs. [3] And frankly, I can't blame them. Pragmatism rules. [4]

- A common cause. But what is that cause and do all bands share it? As I said above, we really don't think of visual kei as something as much as we do as an entity against something. But even that "entity" changes over time, reflected by the different forms of visual kei. So do the bands of the late 80's and the bands of today share the same goal? Yes and no. [5]

- People from different walks of life. We can't say too much because we don't know the details of most musicians. Note however that on a macro scale most visual kei bands are Japanese and many tend to gravitate around a few cities on the mainland. We also can surmise that a lot of these musicians are poor or struggling. We also haven't seen the scene take root in any other countries with similar situations. In this sense, it represents a truly Japanese problem - disillusioned youth versus "The System". If it's a movement here, it's on a small scale.

Visual kei is too anti-classification to be a genre and too inconclusive to be a movement. So what is it?

My admittedly semantic description of visual kei is that of a paradoxical anomaly. It exists, full of people perpetuating it unaware of it's purpose, fighting against an issue that plagues the Japanese society whilst embodying almost every characteristic of that society. What is that issue? Well, I believe the issue lies in the extreme conformity and deference to authority found in the society, coupled with high expectations placed upon every member of that society, along with a thirty year recession that has stagnated the Japanese economy and makes it hard to achieve the life every Japanese person feels it is their duty to obtain.

A strictly Japanese problem. [6]

Visual kei exists as an antagonist to everything in that society, even definition, because it refuses to conform. It's piloted by people who know full they may never see success but toil anyway as a gigantic "FUCK YOU" to their society. It's also mostly populated by young people with the drive and ambition to change their surroundings but no means to achieve that change (and older people who exploit these young people for the cash they'll never see, bringing the entire scene into territory so meta it hurts). When those kids grow up and lose their drive, as after years of fighting against this nebulous problem they watch it shift into something new but no less harmful, they give up, slip into the routine, and become working salary men that can't be identified. It's an anomaly that just is, and that anomaly happens to make noise that we like to listen to.

To pigeonhole visual kei into anything else misses the political and cultural significance that caused it's birth.

tl;dr - Visual kei is the Japanese "hippie culture" of the 60's, with no Vietnam War in sight to bring it to an end. [7]

Notes:

Here I extrapolate on points that I wanted to make above and didn't because I didn't want to go on a tangent and not come back.

[1] This is my personal belief behind why revival bands like Grieva and Ru:natic will never see a resurgence. The forms that visual kei took in the 90's was in resistance to the culture and expectations of the 90's. The world is an irreversibly different place and thus visual kei must change along with it. This is also why I believe that visual kei is not an aesthetic - the fashion world moves in cycles much shorter than 30 years. Visual kei hasn't repeated a phase to date. That's why I believe it supersedes such a definition.

[2] Not only does this loose definition work but it reflects a lot of what I get into later in my argument. Most importantly, that it gives an element of control back to the band. I've read in multiple places that the Japanese populace don't feel like they have much choice - they must succeed in school, get into better schools, succeed there, get a good job, start a family, etc. - and then must face a wall of depression when they realize that most can't get to the head of the pack and they didn't. By sticking to this definition, bands can have a say in a core element which defines them.

[3] Richard Stallman, founder of the GNU Project. Read up on him to see what ideals unbounded by pragmatism really is. Hint: it sounds like crazy.

[4] When bands have no motivation or have run out of reasons to continue they sometimes disband for no reason. On the other side of that coin, some bands are so tight knit that they feel as if they can't function if a member leaves. But at the heart of it all, many bands don't put ideals and beliefs over success. Those that have them use them alongside the visuals and their music - and even then if it becomes too hard they quit or if they become successful they tone it down or cut it out completely. See, NoGoD.

[5] Even more interestingly, visual kei itself tends to conform in ways, which subverts the point of the whole thing. It's like a military group led by a dictator attacking a dictatorial government for its evils. This is why I refrain from calling it a movement, because it itself embodies the very principles it seeks to combat.

[6] Which is why "overseas visual kei" will never take off. The societal conditions are not right for it to spawn. YOHIO and Seremedy are second-order simulacra.

[7] After WWII, Japan isn't allowed to have a real standing army so it isn't in it's best interest to get into conflicts. I meant it literally. In another sense, you could say that the counterculture of the 60's was against "The System" but manifested itself through the War. Once the War ended, the culture had little reason to exist. Since visual kei doesn't have such a clear cut enemy, it will continue on for much longer. This is also why visual kei can't "die".

Since I can't stand the Mejibray/GazettE-stanning that's taken over this topic and has gotten away from the original intent, I'm bringing it back. I'm also giving you all something new to talk about since new unpopular opinions have ceased to surface over the last page or so.

Visual kei is not a genre or an aesthetic movement. It's a paradoxical manifestation of an anomaly against the negatives of Japanese culture.

This is closely related to the problem of "what is visual kei?".

Stolen shamelessly from Wikipedia, a genre is defined as
 
 
We can stop right here. Before you start processing the definition, ask yourself "what is visual kei"? We can have a ten page discussion about that in this topic right now and still not come to a consensus. Visual kei is an open-ended, ill-defined term exploited by both us and the bands in the scene to refer to whatever we please. We agree to disagree on what the term is supposed to mean and take it at face value when someone tells us that a band is or isn't visual kei anymore.

By definition, visual kei can't be a genre because we can only define it by what it is not, and very conservatively at that. The difference between newbies and veterans in the scene mostly comes down to context sensitivity determining band classification. What do I mean by this? Well, we can all look at a band or an idol group and very clearly say "this is not visual kei". But if we look at a visual kei band next to a band that uses theatrical make-up and aesthetic elements, we get into murky territory. Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't. Newbies lack the knowledge to make this distinction, and utilize only the looks to say whether or not a band is visual. Then, they get lashed upon by fans of that band who "don't want to associate this band with those bands" for getting it wrong, and they learn. Eventually they learn only to label a band as visual kei if they describe themselves as such or if someone else before them says it first. [1]

The thing is, the newbies have the right approach at first. They get into the scene, they hear that it's a genre, and seek to classify it. But before long they realize that over the span of twenty years, visual kei has birthed bands that sound very, very different. Going off of sound alone, all bands that were ever considered visual kei can't be connected short of a definition so vague it's useless. So then we turn to the costumes and theatrics and claim that as a large component of what makes a band visual. But even there, we can piece together different bands that don't look anything alike - some bands which don't look remotely visual at all - and claim they are all visual kei. Hell, lynch. has looked like a normal band for quite some time and there's still a heated debate to whether or not they're visual kei. On the first page of this very topic, one of the unpopular opinions was that "Dir en grey is still visual". Once again, you now have bands that have very little in common aesthetic wise and short of a very vague, useless definition we have nothing to go off of.

So I've basically run through this problem, haven't given a solution and haven't explained my point (or have I?). What gives?

Well as a fandom we tend to separate visual kei bands based on decades, so let's do that:

- The mysterious late 80's, which most of us like to pretend doesn't exist, full of bands that play some form of rock or metal.
- The music of the 90's, which is usually thought of as bands inspired by Victorian and goth costumes playing...well, whatever they want.
- The 00's, which was populated by lots of flashy costumes, usually subdivided into subkeis to better be able to classify and understand bands but still full of bands playing whatever they want.
- The 10's, which seems to have a preponderance of electronic elements in the music but for the most part still full of plenty of different bands playing whatever they please.

And even here we tend to simplify this as to "80s HAIR METAL, 90'S GOFF MUZIK, 00'S KEI ON KEI ACTION/RAWRCORE, 10'S WUB-WUBCORE", which illustrates the points I made above. As a fan, you get to a point where you realize that the term can't be defined and thus you stop. The working definition is "If a band wants to be visual kei, they'll be visual kei. When they don't, they're no longer visual kei". [2]  So doesn't this describe a movement, which brings together people just as different for a common cause? Let's go through all of the things that should make a movement and see if it lines up.

Well let's see:

- Coordinated group action. Well, visual kei isn't very rebellious or subversive, outside of the low barrier to entry being offensive to some people's ears and the costumes being offensive to some people's eyes. Unless there is this entire "point" they all share that we've missed for forever and a day, I believe that most bands focus on staying functional over staying Stallman-esque in their beliefs. [3] And frankly, I can't blame them. Pragmatism rules. [4]

- A common cause. But what is that cause and do all bands share it? As I said above, we really don't think of visual kei as something as much as we do as an entity against something. But even that "entity" changes over time, reflected by the different forms of visual kei. So do the bands of the late 80's and the bands of today share the same goal? Yes and no. [5]

- People from different walks of life. We can't say too much because we don't know the details of most musicians. Note however that on a macro scale most visual kei bands are Japanese and many tend to gravitate around a few cities on the mainland. We also can surmise that a lot of these musicians are poor or struggling. We also haven't seen the scene take root in any other countries with similar situations. In this sense, it represents a truly Japanese problem - disillusioned youth versus "The System". If it's a movement here, it's on a small scale.

Visual kei is too anti-classification to be a genre and too inconclusive to be a movement. So what is it?

My admittedly semantic description of visual kei is that of a paradoxical anomaly. It exists, full of people perpetuating it unaware of it's purpose, fighting against an issue that plagues the Japanese society whilst embodying almost every characteristic of that society. What is that issue? Well, I believe the issue lies in the extreme conformity and deference to authority found in the society, coupled with high expectations placed upon every member of that society, along with a thirty year recession that has stagnated the Japanese economy and makes it hard to achieve the life every Japanese person feels it is their duty to obtain.

A strictly Japanese problem. [6]

Visual kei exists as an antagonist to everything in that society, even definition, because it refuses to conform. It's piloted by people who know full they may never see success but toil anyway as a gigantic "FUCK YOU" to their society. It's also mostly populated by young people with the drive and ambition to change their surroundings but no means to achieve that change (and older people who exploit these young people for the cash they'll never see, bringing the entire scene into territory so meta it hurts). When those kids grow up and lose their drive, as after years of fighting against this nebulous problem they watch it shift into something new but no less harmful, they give up, slip into the routine, and become working salary men that can't be identified. It's an anomaly that just is, and that anomaly happens to make noise that we like to listen to.

To pigeonhole visual kei into anything else misses the political and cultural significance that caused it's birth.

tl;dr - Visual kei is the Japanese "hippie culture" of the 60's, with no Vietnam War in sight to bring it to an end. [7]

Notes:

Here I extrapolate on points that I wanted to make above and didn't because I didn't want to go on a tangent and not come back.

[1] This is my personal belief behind why revival bands like Grieva and Ru:natic will never see a resurgence. The forms that visual kei took in the 90's was in resistance to the culture and expectations of the 90's. The world is an irreversibly different place and thus visual kei must change along with it. This is also why I believe that visual kei is not an aesthetic - the fashion world moves in cycles much shorter than 30 years. Visual kei hasn't repeated a phase to date. That's why I believe it supersedes such a definition.

[2] Not only does this loose definition work but it reflects a lot of what I get into later in my argument. Most importantly, that it gives an element of control back to the band. I've read in multiple places that the Japanese populace don't feel like they have much choice - they must succeed in school, get into better schools, succeed there, get a good job, start a family, etc. - and then must face a wall of depression when they realize that most can't get to the head of the pack and they didn't. By sticking to this definition, bands can have a say in a core element which defines them.

[3] Richard Stallman, founder of the GNU Project. Read up on him to see what ideals unbounded by pragmatism really is. Hint: it sounds like crazy.

[4] When bands have no motivation or have run out of reasons to continue they sometimes disband for no reason. On the other side of that coin, some bands are so tight knit that they feel as if they can't function if a member leaves. But at the heart of it all, many bands don't put ideals and beliefs over success. Those that have them use them alongside the visuals and their music - and even then if it becomes too hard they quit or if they become successful they tone it down or cut it out completely. See, NoGoD.

[5] Even more interestingly, visual kei itself tends to conform in ways, which subverts the point of the whole thing. It's like a military group led by a dictator attacking a dictatorial government for its evils. This is why I refrain from calling it a movement, because it itself embodies the very principles it seeks to combat.

[6] Which is why "overseas visual kei" will never take off. The societal conditions are not right for it to spawn. YOHIO and Seremedy are second-order simulacra.

[7] After WWII, Japan isn't allowed to have a real standing army so it isn't in it's best interest to get into conflicts. I meant it literally. In another sense, you could say that the counterculture of the 60's was against "The System" but manifested itself through the War. Once the War ended, the culture had little reason to exist. Since visual kei doesn't have such a clear cut enemy, it will continue on for much longer. This is also why visual kei can't "die".

Visual kei gets a bad reputation because visual kei fans can't talk music
Elaboration is the cornerstone of great conversation and great writing. Talking about music and bands is an exercise in persuasive writing. You're giving your audience - anyone that took the time to read what you have to write - very good reasons to consider why your position is correct. Now let's say I just left this topic with that one sentence in bold. I may have a good point. If I explain, I very well may change your view. But since I don't, you won't take me seriously. If I do this over and over again very soon I'm going to build up a reputation as someone not worth listening to because I don't explain the "why's" behind my beliefs.
Expand this out to the entire visual kei scene.
One of our largest problems isn't that we don't have a lot to say about our favorite artists. We do. We just never get around to ever saying it. This extends out beyond Monochrome Heaven. I find I can't take people's opinions or reviews seriously because they'll just say something is great or something is shit and leave it at that. Most of the time I'm convinced that subsequent people just parrot the first person to say something different, and it continues in that direction from there. There is hardly ever details and when there is it is at the most basic level possible. As fans, we should continue to promote our favorite bands and our favorite releases, but then couple that with reasons. Why do I like this album? Why don't I like this band?
And let's keep it strictly about the music, because believe it or not saying "the vocals are good and the guitars are awesome!" tells a potential interested reader nothing. What exactly does awesome sound like? Right...
Now if you are not confident in your writing and explanation abilities, don't let it stop you. Read up on professional reviews on other websites. Take tips from them. Continue to work on it. You can't become better at reviewing if you never try. But if we all begin to discuss the actual music behind visual kei when we make our claims, I believe that people in other scenes will stop dismissing us outright as wankers who only listen for the pretty boys.

"I don't like the GazettE because of the fans."
Response of the Zess: You're stupid. Anyone that lets the actions of other people determine whether or not they can enjoy a band isn't focusing on the music. Bonding over liking a similar artist is an attractive draw to liking a certain band but it shouldn't be the only reason why you like a band. It's entirely possible to like the GazettE and not step foot in the shoutbox or a GazettE tumblr ever. I do. As of this writing, they are the fifth most played band on my last.fm. Separate the fans from the music.
This also goes out to the people that act like the GazettE never has made good music and is the symptom of decay in the visual kei scene. Shut up. I know you listen to them with the scrobbler off so don't front.
Oh and if for whatever reason you feel like somebody will judge you for liking the GazettE (or any band) get off last.fm and dismount from your high horse. That's a sign of neurosis. If you actually knew how few people looked at your last.fm or cared about what you listen to, you wouldn't care at all. If anyone ever DOES judge you for listening to a band you like, tell them to go play in traffic.

Well, we will be here waiting for you whenever you can return.

Visual kei gets a bad reputation because visual kei fans can't talk music
Elaboration is the cornerstone of great conversation and great writing. Talking about music and bands is an exercise in persuasive writing. You're giving your audience - anyone that took the time to read what you have to write - very good reasons to consider why your position is correct. Now let's say I just left this topic with that one sentence in bold. I may have a good point. If I explain, I very well may change your view. But since I don't, you won't take me seriously. If I do this over and over again very soon I'm going to build up a reputation as someone not worth listening to because I don't explain the "why's" behind my beliefs.
Expand this out to the entire visual kei scene.
One of our largest problems isn't that we don't have a lot to say about our favorite artists. We do. We just never get around to ever saying it. This extends out beyond Monochrome Heaven. I find I can't take people's opinions or reviews seriously because they'll just say something is great or something is shit and leave it at that. Most of the time I'm convinced that subsequent people just parrot the first person to say something different, and it continues in that direction from there. There is hardly ever details and when there is it is at the most basic level possible. As fans, we should continue to promote our favorite bands and our favorite releases, but then couple that with reasons. Why do I like this album? Why don't I like this band?
And let's keep it strictly about the music, because believe it or not saying "the vocals are good and the guitars are awesome!" tells a potential interested reader nothing. What exactly does awesome sound like? Right...
Now if you are not confident in your writing and explanation abilities, don't let it stop you. Read up on professional reviews on other websites. Take tips from them. Continue to work on it. You can't become better at reviewing if you never try. But if we all begin to discuss the actual music behind visual kei when we make our claims, I believe that people in other scenes will stop dismissing us outright as wankers who only listen for the pretty boys.

"I don't like the GazettE because of the fans."
Response of the Zess: You're stupid. Anyone that lets the actions of other people determine whether or not they can enjoy a band isn't focusing on the music. Bonding over liking a similar artist is an attractive draw to liking a certain band but it shouldn't be the only reason why you like a band. It's entirely possible to like the GazettE and not step foot in the shoutbox or a GazettE tumblr ever. I do. As of this writing, they are the fifth most played band on my last.fm. Separate the fans from the music.
This also goes out to the people that act like the GazettE never has made good music and is the symptom of decay in the visual kei scene. Shut up. I know you listen to them with the scrobbler off so don't front.
Oh and if for whatever reason you feel like somebody will judge you for liking the GazettE (or any band) get off last.fm and dismount from your high horse. That's a sign of neurosis. If you actually knew how few people looked at your last.fm or cared about what you listen to, you wouldn't care at all. If anyone ever DOES judge you for listening to a band you like, tell them to go play in traffic.

Visual kei gets a bad reputation because visual kei fans can't talk music
Elaboration is the cornerstone of great conversation and great writing. Talking about music and bands is an exercise in persuasive writing. You're giving your audience - anyone that took the time to read what you have to write - very good reasons to consider why your position is correct. Now let's say I just left this topic with that one sentence in bold. I may have a good point. If I explain, I very well may change your view. But since I don't, you won't take me seriously. If I do this over and over again very soon I'm going to build up a reputation as someone not worth listening to because I don't explain the "why's" behind my beliefs.
Expand this out to the entire visual kei scene.
One of our largest problems isn't that we don't have a lot to say about our favorite artists. We do. We just never get around to ever saying it. This extends out beyond Monochrome Heaven. I find I can't take people's opinions or reviews seriously because they'll just say something is great or something is shit and leave it at that. Most of the time I'm convinced that subsequent people just parrot the first person to say something different, and it continues in that direction from there. There is hardly ever details and when there is it is at the most basic level possible. As fans, we should continue to promote our favorite bands and our favorite releases, but then couple that with reasons. Why do I like this album? Why don't I like this band?
And let's keep it strictly about the music, because believe it or not saying "the vocals are good and the guitars are awesome!" tells a potential interested reader nothing. What exactly does awesome sound like? Right...
Now if you are not confident in your writing and explanation abilities, don't let it stop you. Read up on professional reviews on other websites. Take tips from them. Continue to work on it. You can't become better at reviewing if you never try. But if we all begin to discuss the actual music behind visual kei when we make our claims, I believe that people in other scenes will stop dismissing us outright as wankers who only listen for the pretty boys.

Visual kei gets a bad reputation because visual kei fans can't talk music
Elaboration is the cornerstone of great conversation and great writing. Talking about music and bands is an exercise in persuasive writing. You're giving your audience - anyone that took the time to read what you have to write - very good reasons to consider why your position is correct. Now let's say I just left this topic with that one sentence in bold. I may have a good point. If I explain, I very well may change your view. But since I don't, you won't take me seriously. If I do this over and over again very soon I'm going to build up a reputation as someone not worth listening to because I don't explain the "why's" behind my beliefs.
Expand this out to the entire visual kei scene.
One of our largest problems isn't that we don't have a lot to say about our favorite artists. We do. We just never get around to ever saying it. This extends out beyond Monochrome Heaven. I find I can't take people's opinions or reviews seriously because they'll just say something is great or something is shit and leave it at that. Most of the time I'm convinced that subsequent people just parrot the first person to say something different, and it continues in that direction from there. There is hardly ever details and when there is it is at the most basic level possible. As fans, we should continue to promote our favorite bands and our favorite releases, but then couple that with reasons. Why do I like this album? Why don't I like this band?
And let's keep it strictly about the music, because believe it or not saying "the vocals are good and the guitars are awesome!" tells a potential interested reader nothing. What exactly does awesome sound like? Right...
Now if you are not confident in your writing and explanation abilities, don't let it stop you. Read up on professional reviews on other websites. Take tips from them. Continue to work on it. You can't become better at reviewing if you never try. But if we all begin to discuss the actual music behind visual kei when we make our claims, I believe that people in other scenes will stop dismissing us outright as wankers who only listen for the pretty boys.

"I don't like the GazettE because of the fans."
Response of the Zess: You're stupid. Anyone that lets the actions of other people determine whether or not they can enjoy a band isn't focusing on the music. Bonding over liking a similar artist is an attractive draw to liking a certain band but it shouldn't be the only reason why you like a band. It's entirely possible to like the GazettE and not step foot in the shoutbox or a GazettE tumblr ever. I do. As of this writing, they are the fifth most played band on my last.fm. Separate the fans from the music.
This also goes out to the people that act like the GazettE never has made good music and is the symptom of decay in the visual kei scene. Shut up. I know you listen to them with the scrobbler off so don't front.
Oh and if for whatever reason you feel like somebody will judge you for liking the GazettE (or any band) get off last.fm and dismount from your high horse. That's a sign of neurosis. If you actually knew how few people looked at your last.fm or cared about what you listen to, you wouldn't care at all. If anyone ever DOES judge you for listening to a band you like, tell them to go play in traffic.

"I don't like the GazettE because of the fans."
Response of the Zess: You're stupid. Anyone that lets the actions of other people determine whether or not they can enjoy a band isn't focusing on the music. Bonding over liking a similar artist is an attractive draw to liking a certain band but it shouldn't be the only reason why you like a band. It's entirely possible to like the GazettE and not step foot in the shoutbox or a GazettE tumblr ever. I do. As of this writing, they are the fifth most played band on my last.fm. Separate the fans from the music.
This also goes out to the people that act like the GazettE never has made good music and is the symptom of decay in the visual kei scene. Shut up. I know you listen to them with the scrobbler off so don't front.
Oh and if for whatever reason you feel like somebody will judge you for liking the GazettE (or any band) get off last.fm and dismount from your high horse. That's a sign of neurosis. If you actually knew how few people looked at your last.fm or cared about what you listen to, you wouldn't care at all. If anyone ever DOES judge you for listening to a band you like, tell them to go play in traffic.

"I don't like the GazettE because of the fans."
Response of the Zess: You're stupid. Anyone that lets the actions of other people determine whether or not they can enjoy a band isn't focusing on the music. Bonding over liking a similar artist is an attractive draw to liking a certain band but it shouldn't be the only reason why you like a band. It's entirely possible to like the GazettE and not step foot in the shoutbox or a GazettE tumblr ever. I do. As of this writing, they are the fifth most played band on my last.fm. Separate the fans from the music.
This also goes out to the people that act like the GazettE never has made good music and is the symptom of decay in the visual kei scene. Shut up. I know you listen to them with the scrobbler off so don't front.
Oh and if for whatever reason you feel like somebody will judge you for liking the GazettE (or any band) get off last.fm and dismount from your high horse. That's a sign of neurosis. If you actually knew how few people looked at your last.fm or cared about what you listen to, you wouldn't care at all. If anyone ever DOES judge you for listening to a band you like, tell them to go play in traffic.

Visual kei gets a bad reputation because visual kei fans can't talk music
Elaboration is the cornerstone of great conversation and great writing. Talking about music and bands is an exercise in persuasive writing. You're giving your audience - anyone that took the time to read what you have to write - very good reasons to consider why your position is correct. Now let's say I just left this topic with that one sentence in bold. I may have a good point. If I explain, I very well may change your view. But since I don't, you won't take me seriously. If I do this over and over again very soon I'm going to build up a reputation as someone not worth listening to because I don't explain the "why's" behind my beliefs.
Expand this out to the entire visual kei scene.
One of our largest problems isn't that we don't have a lot to say about our favorite artists. We do. We just never get around to ever saying it. This extends out beyond Monochrome Heaven. I find I can't take people's opinions or reviews seriously because they'll just say something is great or something is shit and leave it at that. Most of the time I'm convinced that subsequent people just parrot the first person to say something different, and it continues in that direction from there. There is hardly ever details and when there is it is at the most basic level possible. As fans, we should continue to promote our favorite bands and our favorite releases, but then couple that with reasons. Why do I like this album? Why don't I like this band?
And let's keep it strictly about the music, because believe it or not saying "the vocals are good and the guitars are awesome!" tells a potential interested reader nothing. What exactly does awesome sound like? Right...
Now if you are not confident in your writing and explanation abilities, don't let it stop you. Read up on professional reviews on other websites. Take tips from them. Continue to work on it. You can't become better at reviewing if you never try. But if we all begin to discuss the actual music behind visual kei when we make our claims, I believe that people in other scenes will stop dismissing us outright as wankers who only listen for the pretty boys.

"I don't like the GazettE because of the fans."
Response of the Zess: You're stupid. Anyone that lets the actions of other people determine whether or not they can enjoy a band isn't focusing on the music. Bonding over liking a similar artist is an attractive draw to liking a certain band but it shouldn't be the only reason why you like a band. It's entirely possible to like the GazettE and not step foot in the shoutbox or a GazettE tumblr ever. I do. As of this writing, they are the fifth most played band on my last.fm. Separate the fans from the music.
This also goes out to the people that act like the GazettE never has made good music and is the symptom of decay in the visual kei scene. Shut up. I know you listen to them with the scrobbler off so don't front.
Oh and if for whatever reason you feel like somebody will judge you for liking the GazettE (or any band) get off last.fm and dismount from your high horse. That's a sign of neurosis. If you actually knew how few people looked at your last.fm or cared about what you listen to, you wouldn't care at all. If anyone ever DOES judge you for listening to a band you like, tell them to go play in traffic.

"I don't like the GazettE because of the fans."
Response of the Zess: You're stupid. Anyone that lets the actions of other people determine whether or not they can enjoy a band isn't focusing on the music. Bonding over liking a similar artist is an attractive draw to liking a certain band but it shouldn't be the only reason why you like a band. It's entirely possible to like the GazettE and not step foot in the shoutbox or a GazettE tumblr ever. I do. As of this writing, they are the fifth most played band on my last.fm. Separate the fans from the music.
This also goes out to the people that act like the GazettE never has made good music and is the symptom of decay in the visual kei scene. Shut up. I know you listen to them with the scrobbler off so don't front.
Oh and if for whatever reason you feel like somebody will judge you for liking the GazettE (or any band) get off last.fm and dismount from your high horse. That's a sign of neurosis. If you actually knew how few people looked at your last.fm or cared about what you listen to, you wouldn't care at all. If anyone ever DOES judge you for listening to a band you like, tell them to go play in traffic.

"I don't like the GazettE because of the fans."
Response of the Zess: You're stupid. Anyone that lets the actions of other people determine whether or not they can enjoy a band isn't focusing on the music. Bonding over liking a similar artist is an attractive draw to liking a certain band but it shouldn't be the only reason why you like a band. It's entirely possible to like the GazettE and not step foot in the shoutbox or a GazettE tumblr ever. I do. As of this writing, they are the fifth most played band on my last.fm. Separate the fans from the music.
This also goes out to the people that act like the GazettE never has made good music and is the symptom of decay in the visual kei scene. Shut up. I know you listen to them with the scrobbler off so don't front.
Oh and if for whatever reason you feel like somebody will judge you for liking the GazettE (or any band) get off last.fm and dismount from your high horse. That's a sign of neurosis. If you actually knew how few people looked at your last.fm or cared about what you listen to, you wouldn't care at all. If anyone ever DOES judge you for listening to a band you like, tell them to go play in traffic.

Visual kei gets a bad reputation because visual kei fans can't talk music
Elaboration is the cornerstone of great conversation and great writing. Talking about music and bands is an exercise in persuasive writing. You're giving your audience - anyone that took the time to read what you have to write - very good reasons to consider why your position is correct. Now let's say I just left this topic with that one sentence in bold. I may have a good point. If I explain, I very well may change your view. But since I don't, you won't take me seriously. If I do this over and over again very soon I'm going to build up a reputation as someone not worth listening to because I don't explain the "why's" behind my beliefs.
Expand this out to the entire visual kei scene.
One of our largest problems isn't that we don't have a lot to say about our favorite artists. We do. We just never get around to ever saying it. This extends out beyond Monochrome Heaven. I find I can't take people's opinions or reviews seriously because they'll just say something is great or something is shit and leave it at that. Most of the time I'm convinced that subsequent people just parrot the first person to say something different, and it continues in that direction from there. There is hardly ever details and when there is it is at the most basic level possible. As fans, we should continue to promote our favorite bands and our favorite releases, but then couple that with reasons. Why do I like this album? Why don't I like this band?
And let's keep it strictly about the music, because believe it or not saying "the vocals are good and the guitars are awesome!" tells a potential interested reader nothing. What exactly does awesome sound like? Right...
Now if you are not confident in your writing and explanation abilities, don't let it stop you. Read up on professional reviews on other websites. Take tips from them. Continue to work on it. You can't become better at reviewing if you never try. But if we all begin to discuss the actual music behind visual kei when we make our claims, I believe that people in other scenes will stop dismissing us outright as wankers who only listen for the pretty boys.

"I don't like the GazettE because of the fans."
Response of the Zess: You're stupid. Anyone that lets the actions of other people determine whether or not they can enjoy a band isn't focusing on the music. Bonding over liking a similar artist is an attractive draw to liking a certain band but it shouldn't be the only reason why you like a band. It's entirely possible to like the GazettE and not step foot in the shoutbox or a GazettE tumblr ever. I do. As of this writing, they are the fifth most played band on my last.fm. Separate the fans from the music.
This also goes out to the people that act like the GazettE never has made good music and is the symptom of decay in the visual kei scene. Shut up. I know you listen to them with the scrobbler off so don't front.
Oh and if for whatever reason you feel like somebody will judge you for liking the GazettE (or any band) get off last.fm and dismount from your high horse. That's a sign of neurosis. If you actually knew how few people looked at your last.fm or cared about what you listen to, you wouldn't care at all. If anyone ever DOES judge you for listening to a band you like, tell them to go play in traffic.

"I don't like the GazettE because of the fans."
Response of the Zess: You're stupid. Anyone that lets the actions of other people determine whether or not they can enjoy a band isn't focusing on the music. Bonding over liking a similar artist is an attractive draw to liking a certain band but it shouldn't be the only reason why you like a band. It's entirely possible to like the GazettE and not step foot in the shoutbox or a GazettE tumblr ever. I do. As of this writing, they are the fifth most played band on my last.fm. Separate the fans from the music.
This also goes out to the people that act like the GazettE never has made good music and is the symptom of decay in the visual kei scene. Shut up. I know you listen to them with the scrobbler off so don't front.
Oh and if for whatever reason you feel like somebody will judge you for liking the GazettE (or any band) get off last.fm and dismount from your high horse. That's a sign of neurosis. If you actually knew how few people looked at your last.fm or cared about what you listen to, you wouldn't care at all. If anyone ever DOES judge you for listening to a band you like, tell them to go play in traffic.

Pls. Sadie is a unique band in visual kei for the sole fact that no matter how much time they take to prepare their next release, it has virtually no factor in how good it is. They hacked together their (undisputedly) best album in the span of a few months but because they were on the ball the result was good. Subsequent albums that they "spent more time on" ranged from decent to terrible. They also sandwiched EP's between those albums, some that came out in the blink of an eye, and even those were all over the place ranging from good to bad.
 
I take nothing from the fact that it's "too soon" to release an album for them because if they're on point it will be good. If they aren't, it won't. Delaying it by a few months won't change a thing.

My my, it's the question of the decade. The holy grail to answering all of life's dilemmas.
 
The answer to your question is inconclusive because you've already decided your stance on the issue. No matter what anyone says or how anyone approaches your question, you will not concede defeat or agree to disagree. You came to pick a fight on a forum of visual kei fans knowing everyone will react, hoping to incite a flame war. Maybe you like having your jimmies rustled. Maybe you just like sowing discord. Maybe I'm completely wrong and your brusque attitude is just masking a wish to truly understand. But in order to avoid pages full of drama with no concrete resolution, I had to lock this topic. I will not allow the users of Monochrome Heaven to fall to the stereotype of the average Japanese weeaboo. We are better than that.

But I will answer your question, because I feel compelled to leave you with something to think about no matter what your reasons for coming here was.
 
It is clear to you that visual kei does not offer you what you are looking for. Not all genres of music are for everyone. If you feel that you don't need Japanese men in frilly dresses playing obnoxious power metal, good on you. Continue to listen to whatever floats your boat.

But judging visual kei on the merits of a few bands causes you to miss the larger picture. You can never understand a genre by trying out just a few artists. I'd venture to say that you'll never completely understand a genre if you listen to it for as long as you live. What changes is your perception of what's there - how things you've hated you've come to enjoy and vice versa. Growth and maturity is at the heart of listening to music no matter what it is.
 
That is why Monochrome Heaven, the center of visual kei and Japanese rock on the internet, can be home to so many people with completely different music tastes from completely different walks of life. We see and accept each others differences even if we can't understand why others like what they do.
 
But of course you would not know this. I would not expect you to.
 
Now no one's twisted your arm into coming here and sampling what we have. No one is forcing you to listen to the music that we like to listen to. If you don't like visual kei, you don't like visual kei. We won't hold that against you here. If you have come here to open your mind, or at least try something new before you make a decision, you are more than welcome here. But if you have come to this forum to get off over drama stemming from contrived differences in musical opinions, I can tell you that you'll be better off saving face and leaving. I don't take kindly to people that exist to cause problems.

I SUMMON DELUHI FROM THE GRAVEYARD!
 


That's how this works, right? I'm eagerly awaiting the reunion topic Trombe. Don't let me down

My my, it's the question of the decade. The holy grail to answering all of life's dilemmas.
 
The answer to your question is inconclusive because you've already decided your stance on the issue. No matter what anyone says or how anyone approaches your question, you will not concede defeat or agree to disagree. You came to pick a fight on a forum of visual kei fans knowing everyone will react, hoping to incite a flame war. Maybe you like having your jimmies rustled. Maybe you just like sowing discord. Maybe I'm completely wrong and your brusque attitude is just masking a wish to truly understand. But in order to avoid pages full of drama with no concrete resolution, I had to lock this topic. I will not allow the users of Monochrome Heaven to fall to the stereotype of the average Japanese weeaboo. We are better than that.

But I will answer your question, because I feel compelled to leave you with something to think about no matter what your reasons for coming here was.
 
It is clear to you that visual kei does not offer you what you are looking for. Not all genres of music are for everyone. If you feel that you don't need Japanese men in frilly dresses playing obnoxious power metal, good on you. Continue to listen to whatever floats your boat.

But judging visual kei on the merits of a few bands causes you to miss the larger picture. You can never understand a genre by trying out just a few artists. I'd venture to say that you'll never completely understand a genre if you listen to it for as long as you live. What changes is your perception of what's there - how things you've hated you've come to enjoy and vice versa. Growth and maturity is at the heart of listening to music no matter what it is.
 
That is why Monochrome Heaven, the center of visual kei and Japanese rock on the internet, can be home to so many people with completely different music tastes from completely different walks of life. We see and accept each others differences even if we can't understand why others like what they do.
 
But of course you would not know this. I would not expect you to.
 
Now no one's twisted your arm into coming here and sampling what we have. No one is forcing you to listen to the music that we like to listen to. If you don't like visual kei, you don't like visual kei. We won't hold that against you here. If you have come here to open your mind, or at least try something new before you make a decision, you are more than welcome here. But if you have come to this forum to get off over drama stemming from contrived differences in musical opinions, I can tell you that you'll be better off saving face and leaving. I don't take kindly to people that exist to cause problems.