Help regarding Visual Kei popularity

[asaginokoenigin 0]

Hi ~ I'm 100% new here... xD And I'm actually here to ask for some help....

I'm writing my dissertation on the use of English in the Visual Kei movement and I really would like to know if any of you guys know how popular Visual Kei is in Japan compared to its popularity overseas...

Is Visual Kei more popular overseas than in Japan? Or is it fairly the same? I do know a bit of this because of personal experience in Japan, still I would like to know more from other sources...

Thank you very very very VERY much x3.

[Zeus 7997]

From what I know Visual Kei is more popular overseas than in it's native country. Many people in Japan aren't familiar with the bands in the scene, knowing about visual kei mainly based on hearing names like X JAPAN, Luna Sea and Malice Mizer. Some view VK with disgust and disdain for various reasons. An inaccurate but useful metaphor to think of would be that visual kei is Japan's form of boy bands for rock music.

Someone more familiar with this topic can correct me though.

[Number Girl 48]

Thanks to the internet, I believe currently there are more overseas visual kei fans than Japanese. However, it is still a very small and scattered fandom.

[薔薇の末裔 157]

Pretty much everyone in Japan knows what is visual kei, but most people don't know any band or have just heard the name of some major bands (mostly Gazette or Alice Nine). Gackt, Luna Sea and X Japan of course are still known by losts of people but they don't get much media exposure anymore as they are considered out of fashion or justic nostalgic now.

Most major bands don't sell that much and still play in smaller venues, so I don't think their Japanese fanbase is THAT bigger than overseas maybe..

[relentless 254]

I don't mean to sound harsh...but don't you need sources and scholarly articles on the subect to write a dissertation in the first place? A lot of it is based on field study and I doubt you'll get much help here. The only reason I see vk bands incorporating engrish is because its very WESTERN and a lot of japanese musicians are obsessed with that concept

[asaginokoenigin 0]

Thank you everybody for the info and...

@relentless: well yes xD i know i need academic papers, actually I've been doing a lot of research, this is one more source for my research

[TheBistroButcher666 228]

I thought they used English because many just think it sounds cool.

[Des 289]

I thought they used English because many just think it sounds cool.

That too, but many use it to attract a wider audience as well.

About "visual kei" here in The Netherlands: the fanbase is very SMALL, but LOYAL as fuck.

I think that's what makes it look like VK and Japanese rock music in general is pretty popular in the western world. There are fangirls (and boys) over here who mindlessly go to every single concert of some VK band just to belong in the VK fangroup, even if they don't like certain artists that much. Whenever there's a show here (and anywhere in Europe even) you know that a good chunk of the audience aren't big fans, but only so called "regulars" to VK and comparable shows.

[asaginokoenigin 0]

I thought they used English because many just think it sounds cool.

That too, but many use it to attract a wider audience as well.

About "visual kei" here in The Netherlands: the fanbase is very SMALL, but LOYAL as fuck.

I think that's what makes it look like VK and Japanese rock music in general is pretty popular in the western world. There are fangirls (and boys) over here who mindlessly go to every single concert of some VK band just to belong in the VK fangroup, even if they don't like certain artists that much. Whenever there's a show here (and anywhere in Europe even) you know that a good chunk of the audience aren't big fans, but only so called "regulars" to VK and comparable shows.

Wow! That's very interesting o_o where I live (Ecuador .-. tooo far away, nobody comes here ever xD) there are very very few people who like VK, but those who tend to travel to see the bands they like in closer countries (like Chile, Peru, etc.)! Still I find it interesting to see that people there in The Netherlands go to concerts and stuff to try to 'fit' in a VK fangroup!

[PIZAZ 238]

^I'm not sure about the rest of the U.S. but in LA it seems about half of the people who show up for any vk concert don't really care about the band.

[Gizorz 24]

About "visual kei" here in The Netherlands: the fanbase is very SMALL, but LOYAL as fuck.

I think that's what makes it look like VK and Japanese rock music in general is pretty popular in the western world. There are fangirls (and boys) over here who mindlessly go to every single concert of some VK band just to belong in the VK fangroup, even if they don't like certain artists that much. Whenever there's a show here (and anywhere in Europe even) you know that a good chunk of the audience aren't big fans, but only so called "regulars" to VK and comparable shows.

^ That's pretty much true, I guess I'm one of those "regulars"? But it's not to "fit in", at least for me and my group. I like going to lives, I like VK, I have a lot of friends in the scene who live all over the country. Lives are usually where we meet up. I travel for free anyway. Even if I don't care about a certain band, there's always someone in our group who does, and so we all end up going, cuz it's fun. Unless I really dislike the band, then I don't go.

But the fanbase is indeed very loyal. I also think there's a general sense of "let's support the scene!" here. Mostly from the people living in the randstad. And it works, doesn't it? Since, even when we're so small, we do get GACKT, X japan and Dir en grey this summer.

But that's just how I see it.

Though with the recent influx of small bands playing here (the fool, hitt, lix, orochi), it is getting less.

[Number Girl 48]

In America there are also some people who buy any domestic releases of VK or "J-Rock" bands they can find just to show that there is a good market for their favorite kind of music and possibly encourage it to grow and expand to include their most favorite bands. Don't know how successful this has really been, but I've seen a lot more J-Rock on the shelves of B&M music stores than I have in the past.

[Peace Heavy mk II 7200]

I've run into several J-rock releases in the US, several of them being Visual-kei. For example, I've bought D'espairsRay's first two albums in an actual store, I've seen Dir En Grey's album that starts with 'U' in FYE, I know Hot Topic's website sells Dio-Distraught Overlord-'s album, and I've seen Girugamesh's CDs around as well. The anime store by my school has a few GazettE cds too.

[Furik 832]

Back in '06, I started buying domestic releases like Dir en grey and girugamesh.

However, since then, I kind of stopped because too many were being released and I couldn't keep buying them.

[Takadanobabaalien 3607]

I think it's more popular in Japan, but not alot.

I am sure alot of grown ups look down on the scene (like punk/gothic scene in west), while there still are grown-ups who "got in" to the scene at early age and remained as fans.

(^ I've never been in japan, but this is what i've heard from friends~).

And yes, there are alot of japanese people who don't know names such as BUCK-TICK, X, LUNA SEA & DIR EN GREY.

[Champ213 1858]

I would say the kind of popularity is different. I mean bands like Alice Nine, Sid, etc. do make it into top charts positions in Japan. I have yet to hear about a vk artist having a top ten single overseas. And the Gazette was able to fill the Tokyo Dome. That doesn't compare in any way to the venues of several hundres that jrock bands usually fill when touring overseas, and very often people come from all over the country and even other countrys.

However, these are a very few bands, and some of them may not even be considered vk by the average Japanese.

Then again, even very small indies vk bands seem to get overproportional attention overseas, probably even more than they do in Japan.

[Des 289]

And yes, there are alot of japanese people who don't know names such as BUCK-TICK, X, LUNA SEA & DIR EN GREY.

I find that quite hard to believe actually! But if you say so... it could be true. Never been in Japan myself.

To me this sounds like a British person who doesn't know who The Rolling Stones are. Even if you're not into rock music, not knowing some of the biggest names in your country is pretty... odd. You must've heard of them sometime.

[Gizorz 24]

^ I met with an exchange student from Japan last year, I asked him if he knew a few vk bands out of curiosity, but he'd never heard of X or Dir en grey or Luna sea. He knew GACKT though. :')

And dude(tte?), you can't really compare X to the rolling stones..

[薔薇の末裔 157]

And yes, there are alot of japanese people who don't know names such as BUCK-TICK, X, LUNA SEA & DIR EN GREY.

I find that quite hard to believe actually! But if you say so... it could be true. Never been in Japan myself.

To me this sounds like a British person who doesn't know who The Rolling Stones are. Even if you're not into rock music, not knowing some of the biggest names in your country is pretty... odd. You must've heard of them sometime.

I think pretty much every average Japanese older than 20 has heard of LUNA SEA, Gackt and X JAPAN. Dir en grey are more known among younger people. Buck-tick had some hits in the past but most people find it difficult to remember them *laughs*

[jun 1]

everyone must know gackt and hyde for sure.

hyde was even in top charts i think? with arashi etc

what about gazette?

i know i used to see people in myspace from japan that don't listen to visual kei

they had new metal bands etc in their my space

and had dir en grey also

they only band from "visual kei"

so i guess people who don't listen to metal or rock can't know visual kei bands

same happens in europe&america (most people listen to pop/people who listen to pop don't know so much about rock bands)

they will only know the most famous

[Des 289]

And dude(tte?), you can't really compare X to the rolling stones..

The Stones may be a bit too big for comparison. But let's change that to Muse then. I would think that Muse in England would be as well known as X Japan in Japan. But apparently X and others are not so big there after all, which surprises me.

[flikflak 41]

Well from my own experiences with japanese people and japanese and overseas vk fans, there are several things :

- A vast majority of Japanese people don't know shit about vk (I'd say, let's see, 90% of the population) and don't care. They might know about Luna Sea/Penicillin/Janne da Arc/L'arc/Kuroyume/CASCADE but they don't actually know that they've been vk bands for a time. And it's also the nostalgic kind of bands. They've listened to the bands 10 or 15 years earlier because they did one or more songs that were featured in dramas, movies or animes at that time. The domestic market is pretty small, expecially for rock bands, and if you want to buy an album at tower records or any cd shop in japan, don't look for vk bands or japanese rock bands in the "rock" section of the shop, it'll be in j-pop/domestics. What the majority of japanese people listen to is 1. overseas well-known pop/hip hop/electro artists 2. overseas rock artists (old or recent bands, and loads of bands that are absolutely not known in the US or in Europe can have a pretty big fanbase in Japan, same as vk here), domestic well-known rock or pop-rock bands 3. Classical music 4. Domestic pop artists 5. Nothing (actually, there is a LOT of people in Japan who don't listen to anything in particular, it really surprised me, like they might listen some songs when turning on the radio or whatever, but have no interest in listening to music at all).

Then there is the NEET and otaku centered but growing vocaloid business (vocaloid songs and covers by niconico singers), the domestic rock scene, the domestic electro scene, and at the bottom vk, domestic hardcore/metal scenes. Considering the population it will still be a lot of people, but it really is a small number in fact. Most of the bands in the oricon charts are there because they made a single for an anime a lot of people liked, or because they're not really vk (eg Sid, Alice nine).

- There are some older fans in Japan (in their 30s or 40s), but the fanbase is mainly teenager oriented, and they usually stop having any interest whatsoever in vk when they turn 20/get out of college. There are some nice people in the older fans, but they are usually hardcore fangirls and can be quite scary. Also, Except for a few bands ("Well known bands" like X, alternative bands like cali gari, jinkaku radio, ...) the fandom is 98% girls. No wonder about why it turned to a rock boysband kind of scene. Most of them are just here to look at good looking guys and don't care about the music, pretty much like the overseas fans who go to a vk live only "because it's japanese" and to be part of the vk scene in their country. It's not really obvious when you look at well-established bands, but it is REALLY obvious in small indies events. And they can be really scary too.

- Comparatively speaking, small unknown indie bands (shitty most of the time, I have to say) are often overrated overseas and can acceed to a relatively big fandom outside of Japan, mainly because they are willing to come and don't ask for lots of money for it. Because they come and there is this "a vk band is coming so I'll go and see it because IT IS VK OMGROFLSOCOOL" mindset, they'll be sure to have people being "fans". On the other hand, because of that, some really indie and not known at all bands, even for japanese vk fans, are kind of well-known outside of Japan, whereas some bands that are pretty well-known in Japan have very little fans overseas (often bands that have been around for quite a long time, like Guru guru eigakan, Cascade, cali gari, ...).

So to answer asaginokoenigin, I don't think vk is marginally more well-known outside of Japan. It's only that the bands that are well-known in Japan and outside of Japan are not the same, with a lot of indies bands known outside of Japan. It's just not the same. The vk fandom is also pretty small overseas, as compared to the population of each country, and they usually lose interest in vk after their teenage years, just like the japanese fans.

[Peace Heavy mk II 7200]

http://www.jame-world.com/us/articles-7 ... l-kei.html

A better description than the Ex-VK record label guy and the douche-bag who interviewed him.

[Number Girl 48]

^ Thanks for sharing the link! I totally forgot about that survey.

And good to read something with a far less insulting/condescending tone with decent sources.

(Despite the fact it is an article from JaME, who have gotten things wrong before, including confusing Futoshi Abe with Kiyoshiro Imawano, but I digress).

[TheBistroButcher666 228]

Ah, I didn't think much about the survey when it was going around. It's quite cool that they created this response using the data they gathered from it.