Crazy fans: When is enough enough?

[Ro plz 1290]

Inspired by the recent "drama" circulating Taka from OOR's instagram post, I figured id pose the question. When artists lash out/address native fans or fans in general for doing too much, are they in the wrong? Are they overreacting? Is it antagonizing? 

 

When is enough enough?

 

Seeing as though I also follow K-Pop pretty closely, its not uncommon to constantly read news about idols being fed up with their fans being too invasive/stalker-ish. This is clearly an issue that happens a lot in various scenes. So what do you guys think about this? 

[saishuu 3220]

Just read any @blackdollpost and you get what's enough.

 

I don't really think artists are in the wrong by calling out borderline stalker fans, but it's a double-edged sword; some people will understand it for what it is (people trying to stop others from being invasive) and others will see it as artists going against their fanbase. In Taka's case, for example, there's a big chance of the latter happening - and when you consider how massively popular ONE OK ROCK is in Japan right now, it's probably gonna be quite a big PR nightmare.

 

Koreans are on another level though. Run a quick search and you can find some crazy stories, from people sending idols letters with period blood + pubic hair from "antis" actually poisoning idols and risking their life (like what happened to Yunho from DBSK once for example).

[herpes 1597]

i can see both sides, on one had he's still a person and everyone deserves privacy and respect

 

 

 

on the other OOR are complete shit and he should be grateful

[Lestat 2167]

From the many musical domains I have set foot on, I have personally experienced Visual Kei (or the Japanese fanbase in general) as being the very worst when it comes to its 'fans'. I absolutely do not wish to attack anyone by saying this, but the sheer amount of 'crazy fans' is just completely overwhelming and unhealthy, and regrettably the genre is one of those that is somehow attractive to those who often struggle in life or suffer from mental disabilities (myself included). It shows in the influence a fanbase has on bands and artists, take for instance last year's case of Femme Fatale; a bandmember supposedly cheated on his wife, and it was the fans' desire to see him punished — the man left the band and is never heard of again. I cannot wrap myself around the mindset so very present in the Visual Kei sphere; who are you —as a fan— to dictate a musician's life and decisions? Why is everyone so busy with others when they first have themselves to look out for? It is highly likely that in a person's general surroundings of family and friends, people take pleasure in debauchery, or maybe the fan himself or herself has made general mistakes in life. Do you turn your back on everyone who does differently? Why chastise another human being who is by default prone to make mistakes? Any 'scandal' in Japan leads to disaster and can completely ruin an artist's reputation, and sadly this showcase of completely berating artists over their personal lives has become popular with non-Japanese fans as well. As is said above, Koreans take it even a step further.

 

As the name implies, Visual Kei is unfortunately less about the music, and moreso about the participants themselves, and the genre has therefore grown into an uncomfortable, defensive business where it is mandatory to display a certain territorial behaviour over musicians, or a complete disdain toward others. There exists an extreme concept of bandwagonism where people are unaware of their own behaviour and merely portray themselves as such because this is the norm. For when you stray from this norm, you are chastized and abhorred, and disliked for your difference in opinions. It is therefore very attractive to jump on board and do as others do as to not be targeted, which blows this phenomena up even larger. I have experienced violent behaviour during concerts which was absolutely unnecessary, purely because some people believe they are the only ones priviliged enough to see their favourite artists live. Hair being pulled, being kicked, scratched and even bitten, pieces of clothing being torn from artists their outfits, etc. I can imagine this behaviour would have taken place during a Michael Jackson concert, but to display it during every small concert where there is plenty opportunity to share a word with the band afterwards, it is even more unacceptable. 

 

Truthfully, I cannot recall any such behaviour in other musical genres in which I wandered and as soon as I walked through the curtain into this world, I became confused. I cannot remember people wanting to see Axl Rose removed from this planet because he, say for example, slept with four girls at once, if anything, people'd give him a nod of approval. If any Japanese or Korean artist's sex-life is exposed, expect hell to be unleashed on earth, and expect them to never touch music again because of how awfully influential their fanbases are and how easily these 'fans' turn on these artists and make sure their lives are ruined. Surely, a band or artist thrives on their fans and they are a neccessary component in the industry — but to let things come this far is just unheard of. I do however recall telling other fans that I am uninterested in the personal lives of musicians, and they'd look at me as if I'd grown three extra heads. Why? Isn't it completely normal that you do not concern yourself with a stranger's private business? In the end, I am glad that an artist addressed the erratic and elitistic behaviour of these alleged fans and makes sure that international fans are just as welcome to share the experience of attending Japanese concerts.

[Euthanasia 333]

I am not a huge OOR fan but if it would happen to a artist/band I'd really like I would get pretty annoyed regarding the fans behavior. I don't understand how respect for someones personal  life can be such a weird concept for some people. And I really don't think an artist is doing anything wrong when they address fans for behaving crazy. I mean, if you do something stupid you should be prepared of the consequences. Then again a artist shouldn't judge their whole fanbase for being shitty when just a few people of that fandom is but I do understand if they get pissed and lash out at everyone – they are humans, after all.

 

[Chi 2624]

heh i thought it was funny that he mentioned the fans monopolizing front rows at shows overseas

i have always been bothered by people that willingly reserve or buy VIP tickets for korean fansites when a group is performing overseas

 

i hate crazy fans (especially the stalker ones) and this is the result of years and years of bands putting up with their bullshit because they're afraid of losing popularity

 

 

Edited January 27, 2017 by seurong

[ShTon 268]

It's better to call out fans on their actions. Of course it's gonna backfire, but what can you do, when fans can't grasp the concept of their idol being an actual human being with limited patience?

 

When talking about fans, it never ceases to amaze me, how violent, delusional and insane some can be.

[emmny 4139]

i think visual kei fans should be institutionalized... but thats a topic for another day!

 

while i like visual kei, i cant stand most of the scene surrounding it and find the fans pathetic. i feel the same towards kpop fans, idol fans and anyone who devotes incredible amounts of money and time towards musicians. i get it, its your time and you can enjoy your leisure however you want but it doesn't change how pointless of a hobby it is. a lot of ex-gya realize this, but between me and you, their attention-seeking personalities latch onto something equally stimulating for this purpose, whether it be hosts or other musical groups. why else do you see girls leaving bands once they become popular? because they no longer get the attention they seek from those dudes, as they're now busy with other things and can't prioritize their old fans like they could when they debuted. imma keep the rest of this to myself *kermit emoji*. This happens a lot among jp fans, thank god they acknowledge how sleezy the scene is...people in foreign fandom dont. In the case of vk, the mechanisms that allow for bandmen to become idolized regardless of relevance are quite different from say, a popular boyband's mob of fans but its the same in that case. its alright to be a fan of something and enjoy it, but if you think really hard about it, what does following a band or artist do for you? more importantly, what does it say about you? there's a reason gya are looked down upon, even by their fellow countrymen. the fact that westerns aspire to that is even worse, like you live in a country where women are slightly more empowered so that they dont feel their best accomplishment is that of following a band of crossdressers traveling the country to rehash slipknot songs YET you still want to do it? lmfao. NOW, this is all incredibly pointed but where it pisses me off is these same loony girls trying to come here and enforce that same shit they do in japan...bitch go hold your fucking president accountable for those damn nukes and leave our shows the way they are. until then, you can be crazy but its not my culture so i can observe u from a distance acting crazy...just dont bring that here and expect people to deal with it because you are amazing jouren no bitch u r a dollar bill for the band. keep in mind this isnt the majority of the people here, as we all like to observe from a distance while tossing some dollaz here and there....as for the minority of you crackheads this does apply to....god will find u at the heavenly gates and see how much ticket stubs you have left over at home and make a SWIFT decision.

 

tl;dr: stop following bands and read a book, get an education, read up about politics, empower yourself because there are better things to do with your time. im a hypocrite...but only a bit

 

Edited January 27, 2017 by emmny

[hiroki 5521]

not that familiar with OOR, but aren't they big enough to actually do something about the same fans hogging the front row? most vk bands ban shikiri once they start doing lives at the bigger venues anyway, so i'm surprised OOR still has this problem.

 

as for "crazy fans" in general: i draw the line at the point where a fan's display of affection for the band and/or its members intrudes upon other fans' ability to do the same. until that point, i wholeheartedly support fans who are comfortable with being as crazy as they want. yes i may have no idea what blackdoll is going on about 90% of the time, but it's her prerogative to say what she wants about Lycaon. if you love something/someone, just show it? tbh it bores the hell out of me to associate with people who are constantly hedging and checking themselves to make sure that they don't lapse into their 'fangirl' mode because that's somehow inappropriate.

 

but really, for vk at least, many people can't seem to accept that music is only one part of the lived experience of a bangya, especially so if you happen to live in japan. i'm still astonished every time someone claims that only when you're level-headed enough to extricate yourself from the 'craziness' of the scene and be able to discuss the band's cadences and progressions (not even lyrics, mind you) in the same way a bunch of paleontologists examine fossil records with measured excitement can you finally be crowned a card-carrying Mature Fan. clearly the irony isn't lost on people who quite fearlessly denigrate other sections of the fanbase for their supposed 'elitism'.

 

[frayed 404]

Enough is enough when you are actively harming yourself or others, or making the artist in question uncomfortable. I don't think it's really fair to judge by more than that. It's a rough world, and as hokey as it sounds, life's just too short. If you love something that much, do it. If you don't, not your place to judge.

 

There are some things like the whole practice of demachi that I'm not entirely comfortable with, for example, but I've seen girls do it and a lot of the bands were really cool about it. (Morrigan for example really doesn't seem to mind people approaching them at all, haha, they were so chill with their fans.) If the band doesn't take issue, then I don't see a reason to.

 

Also, again, I really have to vocalize that my experience with people in Japan regarding vkei (who aren't involved in the scene) hasn't been remotely negative. More often than not they either don't anything about it and shrug it off or don't know anything and they're curious about it. To have a stigma would mean it's known enough to have a stigma in the first place. But again, that's just my experience.

[platy 3018]

On 27/01/2017 at 4:41 AM, emmny said:

while i like visual kei, i cant stand most of the scene surrounding it and find the fans pathetic.

 

These have been my thoughts for a while. The territorial behavior disgusts me and the fact people don't realise what they're doing puts me off even more.

Fans are not entitled to anything to do with the artist's life or being.

Look at yourself and think "I am getting possessive of this artist like a rabid dog over a bone? Am I having murderous feelings towards other fans because they dared come to the same live gig like me? Have I been feeding my dog in the past few months or have I just been living, breathing and drinking this thing I'm a fan of?''  Answer yes to any of those and imo you've gone too far. 

 

Musical artists aren't sacred entities, they make mistakes, they fuck other people, they get messy when they eat, they have lazy days, they fart and have bad hair days because they're humans.(Yes, that includes those perfect doll-like kpop idols). So fans need to remember that at some point their patience is gonna run out if you keep acting like an animal and you're probably embarassing yourself in the process.

All cool if you go to a band's gigs every week, you follow them all over the country and socialise when you get the chance. But if people are going as far poisoning someone, beating other fans up /threatening them, sending their bodily fluids or other things that came from their body....bitch, I don't care if this is how you show love. You need help immediately. 

 

I just hate fandoms in general. Nowadays any conglomerate of fans become an angry cloud of bees, if anyone dares step out of the fandom's rules that person will be erased (e.g get doxxed, ''cyber-bullied'' to suicide, etc) and that's some really sickly behavior typical of people who can't form their own opinions. It's even come to the point where creators or artists get harassed for not giving fans what they want...but anyway. I'll just watch everything from the back.

Edited January 29, 2017 by Platy

[desparejo86 160]

On 1/26/2017 at 10:41 PM, emmny said:

i more importantly, what does it say about you? there's a reason gya are looked down upon, even by their fellow countrymen. the fact that westerns aspire to that is even worse, like you live in a country where women are slightly more empowered so that they dont feel their best accomplishment is that of following a band of crossdressers traveling the country to rehash slipknot songs YET you still want to do it? lmfao.

 

    

 

I think part of why VK fandom has a disproportionate amount of crazies is because some combination of the costumes, language barrier, different cultural norms, other side of the planet, etc make the bands and band members ripe for projecting ALL KINDS OF INSANE SHIT onto them, and the nature of the industry/culture perpetuates that, intentionally or unintentionally. All artists aim project some degree of fantasy, but western fans often times seem incapable of grasping that VK artists are just like any other group of self absorbed musicians; probably sitting on their asses, drinking and texting girls all day while their girlfriends are at work. 

 

Saying that, the Femme Fatale was really interesting and bizarre. I've got zero knowledge of the Japanese side of the fandom, but have always wondered to what lengths bands have to go to to keep groupie culture under wraps over there, as it appears anything relationship/groupie/sex related being made public is absolutely unthinkable.

[-jibakurei- 111]

I have to admit, that the concept of being a fan of a person creeps me out in general. 

I do understand, when ppl like bands, bandmember, artists whatsoever for various reasons, but the intensitiy shift between like and be fanatic is too much for me to comprehend. Like srsly, what is happening in those heads? 

I don't want to go that far to say, that they're close to insanity, even when it varies in the degree of fanatism. But that's the same for religion, tbh.

 

In regard for telling the fans to back off, you still have to consider that being an artist always makes you to a human who enters the lights, so they decided to give up on the exclusive right of being a private person (that's basically why paparazzi are allowed to snap pics and can't be sued). And some also live off the 'dream' they're selling (especially hosts and VK bands).

But still. 'Celebrities' are only human. And that's where the basic human rights apply to them as well. Wouldn't it be sickening to thing of being denied those rights? 

Anyway, fans and fanatics aren't on the same side of the paper. Fanatics destroying the image of the fanbase is a story as long as the concept of leadership and volunteer followers exists.