New VK vs. Old VK

[The Bread Wolf 231]

Does anybody think Visual Kei could die out if it continues the way it goes today?

Visual kei as it is now will die out some day, just like it has with every generation. Then someone 10 years later decides to bring up this crazy host-boy-dressed-up-in-glitter-only VK that is now in.

 

But saying VK will die completely just because it is the way it is now? That's bullshit. Nothing is referring to that. And I think that's what Kyouki actually tried to say in that interview rather than pointing out that current VK is horrible and will kill the whole genre. Every era of VK will die. New waves come and go and nothing can stop that. 

[seikun 317]

Visual kei as it is now will die out some day, just like it has with every generation. Then someone 10 years later decides to bring up this crazy host-boy-dressed-up-in-glitter-only VK that is now in.

 

But saying VK will die completely just because it is the way it is now? That's bullshit. Nothing is referring to that. And I think that's what Kyouki actually tried to say in that interview rather than pointing out that current VK is horrible and will kill the whole genre. Every era of VK will die. New waves come and go and nothing can stop that. 

I don't think Kyouki tried to say current Visual Kei is horrible, but that its current state will not last long because maybe ti doesn't offer anything special or different, so to speak...

[miyuu 40]

i like grieva's music but i don't see how beeing a blatant copy helps today's vkei.
and other than some fun they don't offer anything special either
 

[Peace Heavy mk II 7200]

Some of that interview doesn't make sense. I mean, aren't all 5 of them from Reload anyway? Why did they talk about hunting down people with similar goals when they literally changed names and theme?

[Zeus 7997]

I don't trust anything posted on a blogspot, sorry.

[TheBistroButcher666 228]

I'm assuming that interview is from that issue of Cure they were featured in but seems rather incomplete. Also I think Cure provides Engrish translations of the interviews for the cover bands for that month.

 

 

i like grieva's music but i don't see how beeing a blatant copy helps today's vkei.
and other than some fun they don't offer anything special either
 

 

Hahaha, I agree. I like their music, I like what they're doing but if they're just going to keep remaking old Dir en grey releases they're not going to get far. I liked that album they just put out but after awhile it becomes boring since it was all songs I had heard before in one form or another. Eventually I decided I'll just go and listen to for realz Dir en grey y'know.

 

Hopefully future releases they'll actually make their own music instead of remaking other people's music.

[hyura 465]

I read the original interview in japanese some weeks ago (it was linked on their blog I think) and it was pretty long, this is only the first few questions. But while I don't remember details anymore the translation seems legit.

They did lie about how they got together in the original one, too and also in another one I read. Maybe they think it helps with their image if people think they never participated in the 'new shit'? But weird, because everybody knows.

 

I actually think it's okay that grieva copies the 90s. There was no real base of 'old style' bands when they formed and their mission clearly was to draw attention to that style and make it popular again. And it might even work a bit, because for some reason minor bands often look kotekote lately.

The genre is already clearly defined by what bands like dir en grey and madeth gray'll did and if current kotekote bands didn't copy them one wouldn't recognize them as such. However. Once there is an established group of bands doing that style I'm sure some will start experimenting with what's there and do something new and original.
 

[Ikna 1225]

I just think they are too embaressed to admit they have been playing in one of these now so hated by them neo visual kei bands. (which reload basically was). Also maybe they really believe people will forget about their past. I don't know how well known reload have been, but they sure didn't manage to make it far. So they kind of hope people don't either know of this band and/or don't care enough about it.
But hey, it is a vk band... they often twist information they way it suits them (remember Dir en grey and their answers to questions about the origin of their band name?)

Abou the copycat issue: As I have said before, I don't mind them copying dir en grey. Sure, it isn't very creative, but in all honesty: visual kei isn't very original anymore since circa 1994-1997. I still love all the crappy, mediocre and repetitious bands from 1997-2003. I just can't with neo visual kei bands and whatever is considered to be trendy and in fashion at the moment in vk. There aren't so many bands around these days playing old school visual rock so I am happy that there are at least a few; even if they aren't really great, unique or new, but I still rather have Madeth and dir en grey clones than having no new kote bands at all. Of course it would be even more awesome if these groups would do something of their own or even something totally outstanding for the "genre". And I felt that Grieva would be actually capable of doing so as some of their songs were already heading into the right direction (most notably 中絶). And we also have Cell, who may sound like La'Mule version 2 (which is kind of obvious with that line-up), but they are doing it right.

Also I feel it is still too early to judge Grieva. They just have really started as a band and they have potential. I'd just wait for their next releases and hope they will grow fast as a band and leave their fanboying behind so they can deliver us some great kote kei stuff in the future. And as Hyura already said, there are now some nice newcomers (Crucifixion being the newest). Let's just see how far they come and then we can say "yeah, that short trend of bringing the old days back was a win/fail."

[Slsr 207]

Well, I prefer a bit more modern stuff I guess, never gotten in 90s or early 00s stuff that much. However still probably I have more respect for old school bands than bands nowadays. As I don't really view people in scene currently too highly, just impossible to see some of these these glitter boys having ANY passion towards music they make... Just walking pieces of fanservice rather than musicians. 

[Sakura Seven 593]

I like both! 

[seikun 317]

I think GRIEVA can give us a new thread...

 

I have read GRIEVA's members have said they are influenced by Dir en grey, but it rather looks like they are mixing different songs from Dir en grey to give birth to new songs.

 

It is a good idea of GRIEVA's to make old school Visual Kei music as there are people (me for example) desperate to listen to that sound these days, but it wouldn't be a good idea to keep copying/mixing songs from Dir en grey for their next releases anymore. They need to find their own old school Visual Kei sound.

 

I think GRIEVA is the only current VK band I listen to. I just don't like 99,9% of today's VK bands. Their music just doesn't appeal to me at all.

 

It is all a matter of taste, but it would be great that both modern VK bands and old school VK bands could find a place in today's music scene to satisfy all tastes.

[otterley_ 191]

No matter what "era" you like, I think we should respect those guys (we can try...), at least they are trying to live from what they like, music.
They're just trying to have some fun, if they became big, great! If not, at least they had some fun doing what they like. 

I think every bandmen knows that 99% of the time they'll play for 10~15 persons, only a few bands get more fans than this, so, it takes courage to be on this scene, no matter if it were in the 90's or 00's. 

90's bands were super tr00? Yes, but that was the kind of music the scene originally came from, it has changed, a lot, but in the very inside it stills the same, bands still play in the same venues, sometimes they get bigger, sometimes they keep around for 4 or 5 years with the same 10 fans, they're just having fun doing what they like.

I don't believe anyone goes into vk for money or the illusion of being famous. 

[Glamour 4]

コテコテなV系、

 

古いか新しい、

 

真V系へ向かう方法。

 

意図から

[Lestat 2167]

Personally, I simply like the 'raw' sound of edgy demo-tapes, diabolical screeches throughout all of your record and any sort of overdrive on basses. 

Therefore I guess I'm still stuck in your casual Matina days and everything surrounding the era and before it. 

 

Doesn't mean I don't like 'new' bands, though, but mostly those consist of being built up by members of older bands (i.e. CELL, La'veil MizeriA and that sort of stuff) 

 

It's not just the music that does it for me though. The entire idea of struggling so harshly to achieve something that's your dream has always been something I found myself drifting off towards to. Coming out of my earlier music taste being 80's based glam/sleaze rock being bands such as Poison, Faster Pussycat and that entire drag of sky high hairdo's I suppose it's kind of difficult to push myself out of that zone of 'old music'. The original sex, drugs and rock 'n' roll just grew on me. It wasn't difficult for me to migrate my love for hard rock into where I am now in the VK scene, loving old bands such as X JAPAN, Seikima-II, Loudness and everything that comes with it. It just has more vibe to me, it's been more alive. New VK sounds like a chore to me where bands only strive to become popular because they can, instead of actually being required to. Those boys aren't cast-outs, they aren't coming from rough families, they've just picked up an instrument and sat in their rooms for hours learning music from tablets online instead of learning by ear and finding just that right chord on your guitar. 

 

Well that's my give to it.

[Guest mitsubana]

I'll be honest... I got into visual kei in 2006 or so... I got into the music that was around then and am into some of the music that's coming out now. Just what I was introduced to and found enjoying. So I'm into new V-Kei.

[lichtlune 915]

Surprised there are so many old school fans here. I also prefer things like, Lareine, Mirage, Earl Grey, Rouage, Syndrome, Deshabillz, Madeth Gray'll, and so many others.

 

 

Also, why no poll?

[The Bread Wolf 231]

Also, why no poll?

Because this thread was supposed to be a conversation about which one is better if either and why, not just a simple listing of which one do you like better. Quite frankly, I - as the starter of the thread - am not the least interested in how many here prefer the new VK and how many the old VK.

[blackdoll 907]

i prefer stuff from  2002 - present. so new vk cause old vk is a blahhh. avelcain does old school mix good though. and im mad reload switch to mainly doing old school what a waste of a wonderful voice! plus old school make up is just white stuff on face and mostly dumb outfits. mana-sama is the only good on from back then.

 

 

edit: old so called heavy stuff was just a bunch of noise and has nothing tov do with sound quality, cause old depain sounded great. also lot slam and ginded death metal have bad quality but sound awesome. Whats with all the hate on reload? that is the best those ppl will ever get unless they go back to modern music. And all their songs sound the same ha have you herd grieva? just seems like alot people hate Core, melodic and rock, and electronics. and look why in the hell would you want to look foolish (not inculding mana-sama), when in modern you can look proper cute, beautiful, hot, sexy and dark. yes some still look foolish. as for scary DIo owns that. and fan service existed in both in old in new vk but old was horrible. The old generation would take girls number so they would buy all their stuff, and throw private party they basically goldigers. now in vk they give back to their fans by throwing them private lives and giving them exclusive free stuff. old school further shitted on by the way better covers. and alot of stuff sounds and looks the same even though Sugizo , Kenzi, Toshiya , and Kirito want to deny it. the old farts hating on youth.

[Original Saku 1593]

Sorta a hard question since i don't listen to new vk and the old vk that i used to like, I've started to notice I don't like it at all now... but for a simple answer it would be old vk. Stuff like dir en grey, d'espairs ray, mucc, and cali gari from the late 90's to the early 00's will always be my favorites no matter how old I get or how far I get from the scene.

 

Edit: oh and you can't forget malice mizer!

[Ikna 1225]

i prefer stuff from  2002 - present. so new vk cause old vk is a blahhh. avelcain does old school mix good though. and im mad reload switch to mainly doing old school what a waste of a wonderful voice! plus old school make up is just white stuff on face and mostly dumb outfits. mana-sama is the only good on from back then

In my opinion THAT is actually what i really love about the old looks. Surely, the outfits were sometimes really silly and exaggerated and the make up sloppy, but i prefer it that way dozen times. Why? Because I feel the old styling looked more raw, dynamic and interesting. It wasn't the complete über-perfection which it is now, some guys looked like Drags, others like punks, the others like a bad version of Sayako from Ju-On. I really dislike how most vk make-up nowadys looks so polished, everything has to be precise and perfect from teint, complexion to eyes and the boring hairstyles.

It makes sense though - new VK guys rather look like Hosts (who are supposed to look like ultimate perfect bishonen straight from your wet manga fantasies) than frilly New Wave boys with Boy George make-up (or oh so spooky goths in drag).

I guess that's where everyone's opinion differs, depending on their taste and aesthetic preferences. I personally adore a well done old school make up (and I tell you - it's very very difficult. I've tried it a few times and it still looks rather "meh". You can fail pretty hard at a late 90s Matina/Soleil style make-up if you aren't really good with the tools. Also: see all early 00s cosplays. All the people who wanted to look like Mana or oldschool Kyo and failed epically...). Especially the white faces are my faves, because they can be expressive (almost Harlekin like), yet it doesn't really matter how beautiful the person is who wears it - they don't need to be super beautiful bishonen and the focus lies more on their style and make up.

Of course I can see and understand people who like new VK make up better. It's more polished, clean and it can be worn outside the stage in mundane life as well- so it is more versatile. Old VK styling is rather extreme and especially the outfits aren't supposed to be worn daily.

 

But I still miss this style though and I am happy a few groups now are still dressing that way.

[digi 192]

Rather surprised I didn't respond to this topic before.

 

Old vk to me, would be anything from '90 to '05, which is certainly a broad range. In that case, I'd most definitely prefer old vk to new any day. New visual kei doesn't do anything for me, to be quite honest. But of course there are some exceptions. 

 

There's something about those old matina/soleil bands losing their shit in a song, and dressing in the gaudiest of artificial leathers, that simply do not compare to the sparkly, glittered-up, boyband-esque bands of today. Needless to say, the music was just as awful then as it is now, but old vk had this certain charm about it that makes it a whole lot more enjoyable as a whole, for me. But then again, maybe I'm just biased towards flour-faced men in PVC attire, recording shitty (yet lovely) music to satisfy my ears.

 

With all that goff matina stuff aside, I also find that the older angura or nagoya bands such as cali gari, mucc, kalimero, or deadman, also stood out to me more than any new vk band ever has. Once again, I find that these two particular subgenres have quite the charm to them. Certainly gives you a sense of nostalgia and immense emotion to listen to artists like these, which is something I like.

 

The musicianship from the older era of things seemed to be of a more excellent quality, in general. In most cases, you can surely sense when there's a lot of feeling and thought put into a song, and I cannot sense that with most things I've heard from the newer spectrum of vk. Not to say the musicianship is horrid here, but it doesn't quite feel the same.

 

This is just my two cents though, and should probably be taken with a grain of salt. I'd to conclude that I'm also very surprised at how many others here prefer the older era.

[Minami 450]

I prefer NEO- Visual kei and im listening to new bands... ..they use a lot of synth sounds, autotuned voice  and have futuristic look..all these makes me happy... this is bad that now we have a lot of disbandments...but now i like such groups like DixDriver, Wing Works(his dubstep-rock is awesome), Avidit, Rono Cro, Luche, Purple Stone, the Raid, Xepher, 2nd dyz, Realies,Never ending ein schritt and lot of other groups in this style... )))

[blackdoll 907]

i would say old is from 80's - 2001. the only band im not sure of is rentere en soi in the beginning.

[Peace Heavy mk II 7200]

I don't really think "old vkei" should really be lumped into just one cohesive category that spans 20 years since that implies a high degree of sameness in both halves of the equation. The music and style of dress was different from 1998~2002 than it was from 1994~1997, and the scene from 2002~2006 was nothing like it is today. Hell, even from 2007~2010 is almost a completely different game from what it is today. Is D'espairsRay's last album still considered "new visual-kei?" Rentrer en Soi's "ゆりかご" was released in 2004, yet that is probably considered to be "old school." 

 

And what about the blatantly ignored white-kei era? Wyse and IZAM are crying rn

 

If we're going so far as the mid-80s to '91~'92, I don't know if it would be correct to really consider those bands in the same realm as what's being discussed here. Bands like Red Tailed Cat, Jolly Pickles, Zi:Kill, Color, D'erlanger, Banana Fish, and the other various Free-Will entourage have always kind of been "proto visual" to me since visually, musically, and the general attitude of the scene (or lack thereof in this case) is not the same is it would become shortly after. Granted you could very well dislike them just as much as random Key Party bands, but that doesn't mean they're the same kind of asian men in dresses

[Biopanda 2675]

White-kei bands will always, ALWAYS be forgotten about. It totally messes up people's arguments about how 90s VK was all dark goff, when a majority of the bands that were actually popular were playing floofy pop-rock XD